Leading Through Change: Vanessa LeFebvre on Curiosity, Courage and Conviction

Retail transformation doesn’t start with bold declarations. It starts with listening.

In this episode of Retail Relates, Rich Honiball, Tony Wells, and Judy Sedjiny sit down with Vanessa LeFebvre, a global retail leader who has spent her career operating at the intersection of brand, data, and execution.

Vanessa shares pivotal moments that shaped her leadership journey — from building Macy’s Backstage into a scalable off-price format, to partnering with data scientists at Stitch Fix, to leading global brands through moments of reinvention and exit. Across each chapter, her philosophy remains consistent: listen first, confront reality early, and connect strategy to the teams responsible for delivering it.

The conversation explores:

• Why curiosity is a leadership advantage, not a liability
• How psychological safety directly impacts performance
• The role of data in decision-making — and where it falls short
• Why transformation fails when leaders rush past understanding
• How to lead teams through change without burning trust

This episode offers a practical, experience-driven perspective on leadership, growth, and what it takes to guide organizations through complexity with clarity and care.

About Vanessa LeFebvre

Vanessa LeFebvre is a global retail transformation and growth leader with deep expertise across merchandising, brand strategy, and operational execution.

Most recently, Vanessa served as President of Champion Global, where she helped guide the brand through a $1.2B strategic exit, leading complex P&Ls across wholesale, DTC, licensing, and global markets. She now serves as Global President of Activewear at HanesBrands, overseeing a portfolio that includes Champion, Hanes, Alternative Apparel, and Gear for Sports.

Earlier in her career, Vanessa served as SVP, Commercial North America at Adidas, helping scale the region to $6B; President of Lord & Taylor; VP of Women’s Merchandising at Stitch Fix, partnering closely with data scientists; and as the principal architect of Macy’s Backstage, growing the concept from pilot to scale. She began her career at Lord & Taylor and has held leadership roles at TJX Companies and Daffy’s.

Vanessa holds a B.A. in Psychology from the University of Pennsylvania, serves on the boards of Soles4Souls and Runway of Dreams, and is a founding member of Chief.

Transcript

Framing Vanessa’s Journey

Rich H. 0:46

Retail transformation doesn't always start with bold declarations. Sometimes it starts with listening. Hi, I'm Rich Honey Ball, and I'm joined by Tony Wells and Judy Sejini, and today we're sitting down with Vanessa LeFay, the global retail transformation and growth leader whose career spans some of the world's most recognizable athletic and lifestyle brands. Few leaders have navigated as many retail models and moments of reinvention as Vanessa has. From department stores to off-price retail to data-driven merchandising and global strategies, her career reflects a consistent ability to step into complexity and help teams find clarity while never losing sight of the people doing the work. In this episode of Retail Relates, we'll explore the moments that shaped Vanessa's path from her early career at Lord and Taylor to architecting Macy's backstage to bridging analytics and merchandising at Stitch Fix to scaling commercial operations at Adidas and ultimately leading champion through a 1.2 billion strategic exit. Each chapter reinforcing the same lesson. Sustainable growth comes from understanding people as deeply as performance metrics. Our conversation moves beyond the surface-level transformation talk to address the real work of leadership, creating environments where curiosity is encouraged, where difficult conversations happen early in the process and strategy is meaningful and connected to execution. We also touch on how Vanessa's board work with Souls for Souls and Runaway of Dreams has shaped her belief that inclusion, empathy, and purpose are not adjacent to performance, but foundational to it. This is a candid, grounded conversation about leadership growth and navigating change without losing the human spirit. Stay tuned. And we are back with another episode of Retail Relates. Today I get to have Tony Wells and Judy Sedjini as our co-pilots for this episode. How are the two of you doing today?

Tony W. 2:36

I'm doing great, Rich.

Judy S. 2:42

I'm doing great as well.

Rich H. 2:44

So I love the juxtaposition of the seasoned veteran and the up-and-coming rising star who's going to take both of our places,

Tony W. 2:55

I'm ready. I'm ready for it! 

Vanessa L. 2:56

I love it. I love it.

Three Pivotal Moments

Rich H. 2:58

And I have the pleasure of introducing our guest today, Vanessa LeFebvre. I've had the honor of intersecting with you at a couple points during your career and be an inspiration to those like Judy who are up and coming. So appreciate you on the program today. We've already read your bio. It is very impressive. What we like to do as we start off is just ask you what are those three pivotal moments, personal, professional, you can choose that have led you to where you are today?

Vanessa L. 3:29

Oh my goodness. Three. I feel like there's a pivotal moment, you know, annually or sometimes monthly. But, you know, first and foremost, I would just say if I had to find a moment, I grew up to entrepreneurs. And so I would say that moment is, you know, I learned to walk in my dad's health food store. And my first job that I really distinctly remember being responsible for was grinding peanut butter. And so customers would come in and they would bring their jar because it was a health food store, so we were all sustainable. And, you know, you would weigh the jar ahead of time and then you would fill it with the grinder of the peanut butter. And I just remember having so much joy of being able to interact with a customer and being able to do a task. It was operational, but at the same time, they always had a lot of fun watching this process go on. And so I think just early on, that consumer engagement is something that was just really pivotal in my career. Number two was a really good advice I got. When I first joined Lord and Taylor, you know, I came from a background of science and pre-med, and I was very introverted and I kept to myself. And, you know, my mother had owned a clothing business, so I knew about fashion. But when I first got to Lord and Taylor, I kind of did my job and I stayed really focused. And a peer of mine said, Do you not like us? Do you have too many friends? You know, I don't mean to like intrude, but like, you know, you're just all business all the time. What's going on? And I think that actually led to one of the biggest transformations in me as a person. Really, I had been afraid of everyone, assumed they didn't like me. And I'll fast forward because it was a process and I did go work with coaches and things, but learning that the perception of me and how people saw me was very different than how I saw myself. And that with very simple components of just smiling, saying hello, asking how people were doing, I actually could create engagement and great conversations. And, you know, that's a muscle that I had to build because it wasn't necessarily something that I started uh with. So that was um, I would say, this huge transportational moment. And uh, she's actually quite senior at Saks Fifth now, one of their key merchants, and um I love seeing her growth, but I I often give her credit of just really transforming me as a leader. And then, oh gosh, another moment that defined me that I have to think about. I would say having kids, you know. I think you go into this world and you think you're, you know, again, I was this introvert and I would see myself as this radically independent. Even when I got married, I I don't think I really knew what partnership was until I had children. Because you could enter a partnership with someone and they could be your best friend. But when you have kids, you're radically dependent on others. And you have these little beings that are out there that are, you know, you can never prepare for. In retail, there's you always need to be prepared for the unexpected. But when you have kids, you learn what a joke that is because they really like on a moment's known as can like throw you for a loop. So, you know, that idea that there could be a storm or there could be something in retail, and with your kids, you know, you could be on a call. I remember during COVID, I had an all-hands meeting, and one of my kids was having a tantrum, and she just came in and sat on my lap. And in that moment, like my personal life and my work life all blended. And so I think children just really change your value equation of what's important and what matters, but they also are these amazing reminders that nothing is constant and there's everything is a constantly evolving. While I might have known that, I think having kids really transformed who I am. So three moments.

Rich H. 7:36

I think having children is a great training ground for agility. So I like that example. So when you were grinding peanut butter, you started in a retail environment. Is this the path that you imagined? Did you intend to go into retail as you were in the early stages of exploration?

From Pre‑Med To Merchandising

Vanessa L. 7:55

No, no, no. So when my parents were working, I did I normally was in the store with them, but there were times where I wasn't. So my grandmother watched me after school and she was a huge general hospital fan. And I know this sounds so funny, but I really wanted to be a doctor because I wanted to be a character on a general hospital, and it was very inspiring. And I was a nerd growing up. So I took my math book to recess. I competed in something called math counts. So, you know, I went to the state competition in Connecticut and I did fairly well. But when I went to UPenn, I was actually a biological basis of behavior major. I was very keen on going to med school. And so I had some life events happen. So there's a lot of other moments that define us. Um and I decided that I needed a little time off before I would go to med school. And I thought, what brings me more joy? Because I needed a job. Um, I worked three jobs in college, so I was always, again, working. And so I said, I can't go backpacking in Europe. What can I do? And I said, I can get a job in fashion in New York City and study for my MCATS and have like this year of fun. And so I applied to all the different programs, Macy's and Bloomingdales, and I was lucky. I was very fortunate at Penn, they all advertised, so I just dropped my resume in and I was able to get interviews. That's how I got into this. Um, you know, what I didn't expect is how much I would love it and how much it used a lot of different parts of my mind. Um, you know, I got that artistic piece, that fun piece. Um, it wasn't as serious. I worked in the children's hospital in Philly and it was intense. You know, I'd get calls in the middle of the night to come in and work with the doctor that I worked with who is a pediatric cardiologist. So I'd be watching her surgeries at 2 a.m. And you know, when you go into retail, you're not saving lives. You're watching fashion shows and you're, you know, part of culture, and you're observing, you know, what you do at night influences what you do in your office and what you do during the day. Um, and that's a lot of fun. And I was pretty good at it. So I got promoted in my first nine months and I started to make money that I never thought in my life. And I come from, you know, pretty humble, you know, shop owners. These are not big businesses. And so that really changed me. And I ended up saying, Oh, oh, maybe I'll wait another year. And then I was like, I'll go, I'll wait another year. And, you know, I never went back. And I love it.

Rich H. 10:27

Would you have done college differently if you knew where you were going to wind up?

Vanessa L. 10:34

No. Well, I mean, gosh, I took one class. I went to Penn, right? So there's Wharton is right there, the business school. And I took one class. I took a marketing class, I took marketing 101. I've got it. I didn't know.

Tony W. 10:46

And then you were hooked. Then you were hooked.

Vanessa L. 10:48

No, you honestly, it was my easy A. And I I know that sounds so bad, but it was This was the easy A.

Tony W. 10:54

Yeah, I guess compared to med school, yeah, it was probably.

Vanessa L. 10:57

I mean, I was taking you know, physics and stat and orgo and you know, psychology classes, and I marketing class was all about storytelling. And it, you know, honestly, I didn't know how innate that was to me, right? So I have a mother who grew up a merchant, and when she we would go to I could go to the showrooms, we'd go to the coterie, we'd go to these things. My mother would actually talk like a marketer. And she would be like, you know, Susie, who she has those parties every year, and the women that are gonna attend, we need to think about, you know, how we can cultivate the right excitement for this summer, right? And she would really be getting into the the, you know, they're gonna be drinking their mint juleps and they're gonna need these things. And oh, what about this fun accessory? They haven't seen that. And so the way my mother would buy and think about her store was by curating these amazing stories. So you get into a marketing class and you're learning about how Coke goes to market or Pepsi or what, you know, the different um studies that you do, and it's all about studying the consumer and shifting your priorities based on consumer behavior. But quite frankly, I'd never never thought about it. But it's what my mom and dad did every day talking about their community. And, you know, sometimes my dad would bring in new products because he saw that people were coming in and asking for it more or or whatnot. And so I found that class, you know, something that was very easy. I took it my senior year. So, Rich, would I have studied some things differently? Maybe. When my college approach was to take as many different things as possible. I took history of the 60s, I took, you know, literature classes. So while I was a science major, I found myself trying to always take some things that would expand that curiosity component of me. I always wanted to about learn about things that I didn't know. Um and so I'm not sure I would change much. I'd probably throw in a couple finance classes because learning that on the side was tougher as I got into GM roles, but I had some really good mentors and CFOs that I wasn't bad at math, so I just needed some schooling. Would have made my life a little easier, though.

Tony W. 13:12

Right. Interesting. I I tell you, that's a very different journey than we hear from a lot of folks that we've we've had on the podcast to kind of med school to killing some time during the summer and making some money in uh in fashion. So it's great. Yeah. Great story. Hey, when you look at your the journey you've had to date, what do you think's been your key to success kind of on a day-to-day basis? Like how how have your skills evolved and what are the things that have made you successful?

College Lessons And Early Skills

Curiosity, Listening, And People

Vanessa L. 13:42

So I think number one is curiosity. So I have an insatiable want to learn. And no matter what business I've been in, what company, I'm always really curious about learning and not just what the words and the acronyms, because every business that you step into, but um I really like to study people. And so this is where my psych degree probably helps me. But what's the currency in which people are winning arguments? Like understanding what the trade internally in an organization is and how decisions are made, and being very, very curious when you first step into an organization or company about what's important from a business perspective, but what's also the currency that one trades in to get decisions be made and to what makes progress. Um, and every company that I've worked in, it's a little bit different, you know. And I went from Lord and Taylor to TJX. It was a, I mean, I couldn't even describe a more different cultural organization. What TJ is it's very much the negotiation and the hunt, you know, for product. And it was very financial negotiation heavy, where Lord and Taylor was very much about that curation and marketing. But the that curiosity component, I think, is definitely uh really helped me learn and translate into companies. And it's helped me also be good at the business because I'm curious about the consumer and and you know how things are evolving and changing. Number two, I would say, is listening and observing. Um, I think often the things that are unsaid, body language, the touch and feel of product, really being more observant about the root cause of things is a really important component. And so I like to solve problems. Um, but how I solve problems is finding out actually what the root cause of something is. And so I've been very successful in turnarounds and in change management. Uh, while I've worked in eight or so companies, I've probably had 26 jobs. You know, even when I've been in a company, they've moved me around. And that's because I'm I'm able to kind of go in and say, I think these are the things that are going to get that business going. And so that ability to kind of observe and understand what's being said, but also actually say, is that the truth? And find it, I think is a really um a really big one. And three, I I would say is just people skills. So I have a mantra, connect, inspire, and grow. Um and you know, what that really is about is about making sure that the communication and the why is known. Where are we going? Why are we going there, making sure that there's a connection between the consumer and the business, making sure that there's a connection between our actions and our expectations. The inspire component is, you know, people need to have fire in them. I remember working for Terry Lundgren, and he was fantastic at just rallying people around the Macy's energy. And he'd have these big meetings, and there was just this component of the inspiration. And I think people underestimate how important that is. And it could be in a small company or a division of a company, etc. But I think making sure that people are getting exposure to things outside of what they do on their day-to-day and inspiring them to push a little harder and inspiring them with what the purpose of an organization is and how what that really means. Like an Adidas getting to see the kids performing and watching sport more than you know just the professional side, I think reminds people of why we show up every day. And lastly, is just growth. Um, I like to give feedback, um, I like to have really candid conversations. And so when it comes to people organization, I think you need to build trust through that connectivity and the inspiration. But I think growth is where you're holding people accountable, you're pushing them to have a growth mindset, you're pushing them to be better than they are, not necessarily pick your people so that they feel that they're competing against one another, but that they're thinking about growth as individuals and really the betterment of a team. And so that mindset towards people has has also led me to be able to get teams that maybe was not necessarily if you just took the individual talent of one plus one, it might have not actually equaled two. It would be 1.5. But if you work with teams and you get that betterment component, I do believe that the multiplier effect comes in. And so, you know, at Champion, we often spoke of one plus one needs to equal three. How are we going to do this? How do we work together? Um, and I think that's an important component to that people mindset.

Tony W. 18:44

Yeah, I think as we advance in our careers, those are some great observations. You're you kind of your skill sets have to change and evolve. And also, especially if you look at retail, we have five different generations that are in the workforce, or four segments that are in the workforce, and they they're all motivated by uh different things, but I think probably maybe a common thread that you references is the fact that if people think you're genuinely interested in them and you want to explain why and the what behind something being asked of them that they, you know, they respond better. So interesting.

Judy S. 19:18

I wanted to ask with all different experiences you've had and different roles, some people that you work with might have the expectations that you know everything and that you know they want to learn from you or they expect you to know this knowledge. How is it balancing that expectation and also admitting there are some things that you still have to learn as well?

Vanessa L. 19:36

Oh my goodness, I don't know anything. I know how to learn. And that's how I would explain it to people, which is if any CEO right now thinks that they know everything, that is not a CEO I would follow, especially in this world of AI. There is so much that is happening that no person can can know it all. Um and I actually think the most important component is admitting that and admitting it often. Um I think it's one of the most crucial components of leadership. I give you the example. If I tell you to go do something and I give you instructions, I could write a recipe, so to speak, and I say, hey, just go do this, you're gonna go do it. But if I come to you and say, here's the problem I'm trying to solve, would you help me solve it? Which one are you more motivated to go do? Most people, in my experience, are more motivated for the, hey, I she just said she has a problem and she wants me to solve it. And so even if I find, even if you do know the answers, sometimes in leadership, it's actually important to help people find the answers on their own so that they are able to execute it at a higher level. And so, you know, I think one of the pieces that leaders need to do is sometimes understand when it's important to step in and say, hey, I have been through this experience, I do know what the answers are, versus saying, I might have some experience here, but I'd love to hear how you're thinking about solving the problem because the world is changing so quickly and there is so many different ways. I've got to work for Katrina Lake, and one of my favorite questions that she would often ask is, Is there a better way? And I thought that that really embodied what I'm talking about so well because Katrina, you know, she built the company from scratch. She did it really quickly. She knew the ins and outs, but she was always, always asking, is there a better way? And Katrina Lake was the founder of Stitchfix, for those that might not be aware, but that mindset of discovery and constantly challenging, I think is is really one of the most critical things to leadership.

Rich H. 21:46

So you've become comfortable as a leader showing your team that you don't know everything and that you're looking to them to help solve. But bring yourself back to when you were Judy's age and when you were telling a story about someone encouraging you to kind of step outside your shyness. I remember that moment when I was early in the work world and a CMO looked at me when I wasn't answering a question and said, Honeyball, in the interest of uh an opinion, if you don't have one, you can have mine. And there was that awakening of, okay, I need to express an opinion, I have to have that. And early on in our careers, we do feel like, I think we feel like if we don't know everything, if we can't show the boss we know everything, we're we're going to be judged for it. What advice do you have for the Judys of the world that may feel that way if they are not lucky enough to have a leader like Vanessa?

Admitting You Don’t Know

Vanessa L. 22:40

I don't know because I believe that you should be authentic. I don't think anybody should ever. Pretend to have all the answers. My advice would be that your peers are your most valuable asset when you're early in your career. And I think it's the most underutilized asset that young people starting their careers often use. I'll give you an example of what I do now, but it's something that I learned to do when I was younger, which is I ask a team. So if it's a, you know, all the assistants in an area, and I'll say, what are all your pain points? Write them down on a sticky. So every time you're like pissed off or something's taking too long or it's broken or you're confused or whatever, write it down and just note it and put it on your wall. And then I want you guys to bring this to me. But first, I want you all to sit down with one another and spend an hour going through these stickies and understanding how many of you have solutions amongst yourselves. And what I find remarkable is when I walk into that room, I normally have barreled it down to here's one or two things that we really want to talk to you about. And the other ones, it's wow, you know what? Charles had a really good approach for that. And, you know, Iwon had a had a hack for this, or Cindy do knows how how to code these things, and she's gonna show all of us and it's gonna save all this time. And so I think there's this component of, you know, first try and use your peer resources as much as humanly possible. I think too often, especially in retail, when you start in these training classes and you sort of have this mindset that they're your competitors, they're not. These are your like best friends, colleagues, these are the people that you're gonna be in the trenches with, especially as you rise. And it's really important to develop relationships with them and help them. As far as bosses, I think if somebody's asking you the answer to the question, my suggestion would say, This is what I know. This is what I'm thinking, but this is the questions that I need help with. And I think it's one of those things where it's really important to show you've shown the effort, that you've put some critical thinking skills into it. But I also think it's important not to fake it and say this is the answer, because if it's not, a decision could be made based off of that that is going to bring harm to the organization, et cetera. So I think making sure that you leave room to say, but these are the parts that I'm unsure about, or these are the things that I need more assistance, or I need more data, et cetera, um, and being transparent. What you should never do, ever. If you ever like crunching data, building a spreadsheet, doing a report, you should never walk to the boss and not have read it and not have a point of view. Okay, so if you're doing any of that number crunching, you should look at what it is you're doing, understand the question you need to ask yourself is why did I just do this? What are they looking for? What do I surmise from the work that I just did? What do I think of it? And and have a point of view. I think it's very open then to say, and if you don't, you should never, ever, ever, ever do work. If you're early in your career and you're doing an assignment and you do not understand why you're doing it, you should ask, what is the purpose of this? How is it going to be used? Don't ever, you're missing an opportunity to learn, and uh it's you know the most dangerous thing, I would say, is to do work and not understand where it's going. But I also think it's equally important not to fake it so much that you end up giving incorrect data or incorrect uh analysis to someone and be really honest about what you do know and what you don't.

Tony W. 26:23

Vanessa, do you think that happens a lot? That uh people are doing work that they don't know where it where it's going?

Vanessa L. 26:29

Oh my God, Tony. So many people.

Tony W. 26:33

Wow. I never thought about that, but uh have to go back and do some soul searching there.

Vanessa L. 26:37

Do you know how many people also have answers that aren't making it to the leaders? So I went to the customer service office when I was at Adidas, and you know, we had this team, it's a few hundred people, and I was we were talking about why we're getting chargebacks, et cetera. And they were like, Well, we keep doing this. We don't put the package slip or we don't put the sticker on the right corner. We're always doing this, and every single time we're getting a chargeback from Coles or Macy's or somebody. And I'm like, Well, what have you done with that? I don't know. I just normally resolve and edit it down, so we're only paying this amount. And there was no process to say, we keep seeing this mistake that our company is doing it. How do we fix the mistake? We were just negotiating down the chargebacks, and so so often people are doing work and they're doing their job, right? They're negotiating down and you know, saying, hey, instead of $100 per box, I'm gonna pay you $50. And that's good work. But if they were able to communicate the root cause, they can get that charge from ever happening. And in so many companies, that's not happening. That's the part where you have all these silos, and people are really good at their expertise. But if they don't understand where their work ties into the rest of the organization, they miss the opportunity to fix the route. And I I can't tell you how many examples of that I have seen time and time again in companies.

Rich H. 28:06

And I think you see that danger. It's part of the conversation with AI today. How many people will punch what they're looking for into an AI engine, get the answer, and just assume it's correct. That is the danger in my mind to automation in that it takes away the thought process, or it can take away the thought process if we don't apply the critical thinking and say, is that the answer that I'm looking for? If I was giving a project to somebody who was newer and didn't understand what I was looking for, I would question that I would analyze it.

Peer Power And Speaking Up

Vanessa L. 28:38

You know what's really interesting about AI? I actually think it's going to really separate critical thinkers from just the mindless key punching and stuff like that. Because AI is all about are you asking the right questions? You know, and it's how are you asking the question? How are you ensuring that your arc because you're right, you can absolutely if you do not put an inquiry the right way, like if you don't know your retail math, you could be asking it things and teaching the computer the wrong way to calculate things just by the way that you put an inquiry in. And so right now, especially in the stage that we're in, I think if ever, it's so important to have people who really can think about and break down problems to ask the right questions in order to get the granularity in that AI that is exciting. And there will be a ton. I mean, we're already seeing it. I'm sure everybody's gotten emails right now when you read it and you're like, what is that saying? Because it's just so generic and undescript or disconnected. But, you know, it's I work a lot in the AI space. And right now, and I joined a board of a company that does enterprise AI, and that's been, you know, fascinating to me. But what it really does is it saves time in some of the business analysis, but it it actually further differentiates that critical thinking and that strategic mindset, and it's gonna make that why and that the the energy because execution is gonna become more and more critical. And so it's gonna shift where and how humans spend their time. But I don't think, at least not in the next 10, 15 years, uh, I don't think it's gonna make us all dumber. Yeah, there's a case for that in the future.

Rich H. 30:32

Only if we let it. And I'll go back to something you said about not being afraid to say, this is what I know, this is what I think, and these are the questions I have. And Judy's gonna laugh as I say this. But one of the things being part-time in academia that I'll hear a professor say over and over and over again is students don't come to me during office hours to ask questions. I'm required to be here and I can go an hour and a half and never see anybody. And as an executive, sometimes I can give somebody a project, they won't ask questions. What I get back is that that's really what I intended, and they missed the opportunity to ask questions, which I would have welcomed. And I think to your point, as leaders, we have to figure out how to communicate that more. But if you're up and coming as a student or as an early arriver to the business world, being able to ask those questions and not just defaulting to AI of those that are looking for you, I think, is a key skill set.

Vanessa L. 31:25

And I'm going to be a little controversial here, but how can that individual that's having office hours make it feel exciting, interesting, and something that people are seeking? Because I do think that is motivation. Like when I go back to Connect, Inspire, and Grow, I do think it's the leader's job to really cultivate that. You know, so one of the things we did at Champion, because there were so many different parts of the business, and we didn't have money. So we did these things called jam sessions. And I just invited, it was not required, and it was like office hours. Come and ask me anything, present any idea. But we want to jam on the problems that we have, and we're inviting anyone at any level. So I had just, you know, teams from the distribution center, from retail stores, individuals from across the organization would come and they were allowed to present an idea, and we were able to do some pretty amazing things. A lot of the uh ideation that came out of these sessions were things that we ended up executing. So I think you have to make a safe environment for people to actually feel like their opinion matters and that it'll be executed or that it'll be heard. And so, you know, how do you create that engagement so that people feel like the special sauce is going to be in that 90-minute session? And I think that sometimes is our jobs as marketers, as leaders, you know, as a leader, you're a marketer. You want people to get into your they they part of your brand ethos and want to spend the time understanding what's happening. And I think that's that's a critical component.

Judy S. 33:07

Yeah, that's exactly what I was gonna say about Professor Honey Ball's uh office hours. I always felt excited to attend and ask questions. But I've definitely had professors where I'd be afraid to even ask in class because how passive aggressive they'd be. You know, I have professors where I don't even know what time the office hours were. I never even like went to chat because I just knew how terrible they were, making you feel that you didn't understand anything and that hadn't used.

Vanessa L. 33:31

And that's the privilege of being younger. You know, I think a lot of times why did I choose Lord and Taylor? So I had an offer from Sachs, I had an offer from Bloomingdale, I had an offer some some places that were like sexy or on paper. I chose my grandmother's favorite store, but I chose it because of the leaders and the people that I interacted with, and they made me feel like I would learn. And, you know, to me, that is such a different. I think people often look at the nameplate or what's gonna be on their resume. But early in your career, choosing your professions, and honestly, I still do this. Like I, you know, a lot of the decision making on where I went is based on the who. And they do say when you leave, it's because of, you know, you don't quit the company, you quit your boss. But I also think it's equally important that when you choose where you're gonna work, it's who is going to inspire me, who is gonna teach me, who is gonna raise me. Because it's very important to think about, especially your early days, is not your endpoint. What you do in your first four or five years is not the most critical component. What you learn in those years, how you learn to mature, how you approach the business. It's just like college. I I got to speak at Penn's Um Parents Weekend. And I said, I know all of you think that the most important thing is what classes your kids sign up for and how they do in academia, but learning to network, like they've made it. You're in this amazing like institution and getting to know these people, networking, like that's an important skill. So who you meet at you know a frat party might end up being somebody that you're gonna do a future deal with. And I'm not saying that like you you it's everything in life needs balance because the academia is important, but it's equally important to think about what's happening on and off the field. Um and I think that you know, when you think about your jobs and you think about your career planning, it's important to think about more than just the nameplate.

Judy S. 35:36

Oh, sorry, go ahead.

Vanessa L. 35:37

No, go ahead, go ahead.

Judy S. 35:38

Oh, I was gonna say that all my jobs throughout college um I got from people I knew, even my peers. You know, it wasn't somebody that, you know, was high up there or anything. It was people that I knew that I talked to day to day and I was able to, you know, um network and get a job through those connections.

Speaker 35:53

Yeah, that's important.

Tony W. 35:54

Hey, but also when people see your career and your your journey, what do you think they have wrong about you? What's like what's the biggest misconception and and and why?

Critical Thinking In The Age Of AI

Vanessa L. 36:06

I'll give you the honest answer. I think when people there's definitely people look at my resume and say I'm not loyal or I've you know I've moved around. And you know, what I would say is I'm probably more loyal and devote to people and you know, the the mentors, et cetera, that I've had. And I case in point, I spent 10 years at Lorde and Hiller. And, you know, when I got a phone call about going back, and yes, Helena Folkes was she is an amazing legend, and the opportunity to work for her was was very exciting. But I was walking into a job that I knew was exploring strategic options. So I knew that this was going to be hard, that there would be store closures, that there would be a potential sale, that there would be all these heartbreaking components of it, and I didn't necessarily know what the job security, but I love Lauren Taylor. And, you know, if something was hard was going to happen to it, I felt a responsibility and a loyalty to be part of that and to do everything that I could to help it. And so there's a a part of me that loves change, and you know, I love the being able to help people find answers to solutions. But at the same time, I I still have a very large network of people that I talk to regularly that are my old team members from all the different places. And I have a strong loyalty to those individuals and people and seeing their well-being. And so I think sometimes, you know, people see you from the outside on judge you how you look or the companies that you've worked for. But underneath it all, you know, I still work at my mom's shops on Saturdays. Oh, wow, that's neat. Are you still doing the peanut butter? I don't. My dad's store closed, but you know, I think a lot of times people see leaders um as not human. And I know that when I was young, I was like, oh my God, these CEOs have it all together. And I would just say, but there's a piece of me that is devoted to my family. I still get my hands dirty, uh, take out the trash, and work in my mom's store. And I would just say I'm really humble. I never assume that anybody is going to give me or open a door for me. And, you know, I want to earn my way in and work from the bottom up, even if I come in at the top.

Tony W. 38:19

Nothing wrong with being uh humble and hungry. That's humble and hungry, yes. You were talking about just working at your mom's shop still.

unknown 38:27

Yeah.

Tony W. 38:27

When you look at the consumer that we're trying to serve today, like tell me how you think consumer behavior will look in the future with everything, both kind of customers and companies and competition. What's the what's the consumer going to be like in your mind?

Vanessa L. 38:44

I think it's gonna change a lot. You know, I think we've seen a huge shift, especially in the US, right? It's interesting. The answer to this question is very different depending on the part and the world that you're at. In the US, we have definitely gone through this like fast fashion consume, consume, consume period. Um, and I think a lot of that is starting to change. Um you're seeing, you know, secondhand clothing is one of the fastest growing industries. This weekend was at Goodwill of My Daughters. Like, and it's more that I find it one, we are dropping things off, but two, you know, this idea that you have to just keep buying and producing more. And I get it. That's this is the business that I'm in, but I think people are learning that it is okay to recycle, to reuse. And I think that's a huge component. I'm seeing that shift also into quality. I think people, when they are buying new, are starting to have a more discerning difference between just buying stuff and buying things with that mindset of it's an investment. And then I think it's the way we shop is gonna continue to evolve. I I do think that between AI and social commerce and TikTok, etc., so shopping has never been about need, right? We the food business, the grocery business, there there's a lot of need in it, but still, there's different brands, right? If we were a 100% need-based society, there'd be one version of everything and it would be, you know, the the best, most efficient, and we would put in uh do that. We don't all dress like Mark Zuckerberg, which he even he has gotten some style recently. I just see his recent posts, he and his wife are enjoying uh some new outfit changes. But, you know, if it was all just based on rational thinking, that's how we would dress. And so what I love about this industry is there's an emotional component, there's this want component. And I think people are doing a lot of discovery. We're, I mean, a few years ago, we would never be able to have this call in a virtual setting from all different places. And so, you know, when I think about the QVC model of being on TV, I think that translates into the phone. You know, having traveled in China and seeing how much of that business is transpiring on WeChat and from live um broadcasts of people talking about it and showing products and modeling them, I do think that's going to be a big disruptor. But at the same time, I think with all of this digital inundation, people are also returning to, and you're hearing people talk more and more about stores, about experience driven. And so that shift into being more experienced where stores are going to have a component of entertainment. And I think that's going to become more important in the shopping experience.

Rich H. 41:44

Right. Right. So you have your personal life, your business life, and your philanthropic. I noticed a couple of months ago that you made a trip uh down to Central America for souls for souls. Do you want to talk a little bit about that?

Choosing Leaders Over Logos

Vanessa L. 41:58

Yeah, I'd love to. You know, so when I stepped out of working at Champion, I I knew I wanted to make a pause, but one of the things I knew I wanted to do was find a way to give back. You know, and I and I do do that in my personal life, but at a at a bigger level. Souls for Souls is an amazing um organization for those of you that don't know. The founder buddy has put together with the mission to really end poverty. Um, but it it really has focused around shoes, although we take donations of apparel, accessories, everything. But there's two main focuses. Here in the US, we have a for every kid program, and that's really focused on connecting um kids with athletic footwear so that they can put their best foot forward um in their communities and be able to participate in sport and in school. Um and so that's a really important component. In I was down in Honduras, we do do that program with school children down there. Their needs are a little bit different. They need shoes that are going to keep their feet dry because they're often going through rivers in order to get through school. Like they walk through the woods and and it's pretty amazing. And so being able to have footwear that won't retain the water and allow their feet to dry is is a really important component. Um, but we also have a program where we take all the secondhand, we set up uh economic circles. So the idea is not to just give things away, but to allow people to create an economy. And so we were down there visiting one of the our key leaders there, who's actually they take the product in that we donate and they set up different retail centers so they could have employees. And so they have some stores, they're able to bring um these used goods into their villages and to sell them. But it it sets up an economy more than just donations. And so that really gives people a method in which to establish these business trades. It is donation-based, it does do the clothing component, but it has this business establishment in order to set up commerce, which is a real differentiator. And so love being part of it. Right now, we're doing a huge drive. You can go to any DSW and donate um your gently used shoes, or you can go to that comm and make a donation. Um, and right now being able to help them think about the expansion of that because it really resonates. And we have amazing partners with you know the Nike and the Didas and the Awns and the Hokas of the world. But we're really trying to expand that into apparel, into other classifications of footwear and make it more expansive. Um, so thank you for letting me give them a shout. But it's really important.

Rich H. 44:41

Do you find that aspect of what you do helps to inform or influence? Your position as a retail merchant or retail executive?

Vanessa L. 44:51

I think purpose is really important. And so, you know, at Champion, um, we did a lot of brand work. So I'll answer this by saying yes, yeah, absolutely. But I think it it's really important in what we do. So when I first got to Champion, I discovered that we didn't actually have a purpose or values. We were part of Haynes, and Haynes wanted to make the world more comfortable for everybody, but this amazing brand champion that people knew around the world didn't have its own independent structure. And so we started with this premise: what if champion wasn't a noun, but it was a verb? And we asked the question, what do you champion? And we did a lot of research about our core consumer. And one of the most staggering things that we found is that young people today are the first generation of young people, and this was US-based, that don't believe the world is going to be better. So, you know, and I don't know, Judy, at what point you feel where you're on this, but certainly uh Rich, Tony, and I grew up in a generation that we were going to make the world a better place. And that was a core belief. And the kids today in high school and college, the majority of them, and I don't have the stat in front of me, but it was over well over 50%, I believe it was in the 70s, do not believe that the world is going to get better. They they see that it's a burden of a problem that they need to solve or it's going to be disastrous. And so at Champion, we really thought, what do you champion? And, you know, we said we champion a better tomorrow by making people think about what their purpose is. What we did is work with athletes and artists and creators of all types and say, why do you do what you do? What's the purpose that drives you? Because the research shows that if you are tied to a purpose, if you have something that you care about, if you're working, you're connected to your community or you're saving animals, if you're whatever it may be, if you have a purpose, you feel better. And so with the suicide rates and the depression and the different things that we're all facing, at Champion, we wanted to shine a light on the fact that there are lots of communities and there's lots of different purposes out there. Um, but identifying what your purpose is is a way to have a North Star. Having that as a leading component at Champion just led to unbelievable work. And one for me, I have an autistic son. And so talking to him, he he wears a weighted vest. We ended up working with a creator to create a weighted hoodie. We then worked with college kids and we did some studies and found that it actually wearing this weighted hoodie led to a sense of comfort and it helped lower their anxiety levels. And it was medically and psychologically reported. And we did it with control groups where there was non-weighted hoodies and there was weighted hoodies. And it was really amazing. So we were able to produce these and end up giving them to a lot of neurotypical, so kids with autism. But it actually, you know, weighted blankets are become more popular. I still wish the champion would make these sweatshirts because they're amazing. But, you know, with the sale, that process stopped. But we had proved that these sweatshirts had a real, real purpose. So being purpose-oriented and understanding what your company is connected to allows that creative juices. How do you make the next impact? So, one of the projects we were also working on was for those who are deaf and can't hear music, we wanted to make athletes so they could it would intensify the vibrations of sound and so they could actually hear it. And the interesting thing is it was scientifically proven to increase productivity when that the fan noise was felt. And being able to be very clear about what your purpose is and your what your intentions are allows that creative juices to flow. And so for me, I I really am committed to that champion of better tomorrow. Um, and I'm often thinking about that as my personal value right now of just making sure people know what their purpose is so they feel connected.

Judy S. 49:05

If you could ask students one question, what would it be?

Vanessa L. 49:09

Ask students one question. How could I support you? That is so nice of you. It's a question I end every touch base with. So I just think it's, you know, what what can I do? What do you need? What is, you know, what does support look like to you?

Rich H. 49:26

So I'm going to follow that up real quick before we pivot to the to the rapid fire round. When you speak to a class or you speak to a larger group and you say, What can I do to help you? or you offer to connect, do you find that people connect, or are you surprised at how many people connect or how few people connect?

Vanessa L. 49:46

I'm always surprised by how few people connect.

Rich H. 49:49

I agree with you. That's funny. I anticipated that answer. I was hoping for something different, but more and more when I talk to people that are in your position, Tony, in your position, that are taking the time to speak, they are surprised how few people take the opportunity to reach out. And I think that's something that we have to continue to encourage. It goes back to professors' office hours, it goes back to leaders being open.

Misconceptions And True Loyalty

Vanessa L. 50:14

And just as a little added incentive, I would tell you how impactful it is. I had a student come up to me after an event and asked to stay in touch. And I said, of course, this individual sent me a note and he was talking about his job, what he should do, and we we had some advice and he made an impact on me. So a couple years later, I was starting in Adidas and I needed a chief of staff, and he was the first person I thought of. I called him up and I said, Hey, I need someone. And he was like, Really? And I I just think it's really important that you make these connections because you you just don't know where it would it could lead to. Um, and that individual now is the chief marketing officer in a company. And you know, I'm really excited for him and to see his success. But it all started just by making a connection.

Tony W. 51:06

It is a lost art. I don't know if it's the way the folks that are coming into the the job world today are just their neural network is set differently. I'll give you an example of Vanessa. I was very fortunate to be the commitment speaker at Johns Hopkins Kerry School of Business two years ago. There were over a thousand uh graduates that day. And I said, everyone reach out to me on LinkedIn. My wife's like, you're crazy. Like and based on my experience, I was like, we'll see what happens, a thousand people. I had probably uh about 20 young folks reach out to and I and I did a call with each one of them, but 20 out of a thousand, you know, it's very small, and that's often the big difference about somebody gets a nod or it's a secondary connection that helps someone land a job. And I just think we're in a world today where people just hit apply, apply, apply on on LinkedIn or indeed and think that that's the that's gonna get it done. So anyway, sorry.

Vanessa L. 52:06

But it's just I couldn't agree more. And I'm learning that myself. So as much as I give that advice, you know, as I'm exploring my job opportunities, I'm actually having more fruitful conversations from the people that I reach out to that I had met a long time ago, or you know, just connections. And so it's uncomfortable, right? But you know, I'm a big fan of Ginny Rometti's quote: growth and comfort do not coexist. And you know, I think it's a muscle that you need to lean into those things that you find uncomfortable and do them over and over again.

Rich H. 52:39

And if you're an introvert, it probably takes a little bit of extra effort, but you have to overcome that.

Speaker 52:45

Yeah.

Judy S. 52:45

That's true. Yeah. I was gonna say that, you know, somebody that's about to start their career, I feel like a lot of times when somebody asks to stay connected, I'm afraid they'll come off as taking advantage of that connection, if that makes sense. So a lot of times I'll be like, I don't want to come off as, you know, that I'm taking advantage of the person that I've just met.

Vanessa L. 53:06

I don't, I I've never seen it that way. I think the important component is that person from making a connection doesn't owe you anything. And I think that's a key component, which is, you know, networking is, you know, at your own discretion, right? And and so there's no harm in reaching out and and often the way that you approach it. I think where there's been times where I was on a vacation and someone reached out to me and they're like, well, you never replied to me. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, time out. Like there's we also have a guilt-free component to this where we're we all have lives and there's things that are happening. And so sometimes that getting back and that communication needs a minute because there's real life scenarios in everyone's life. But I think it's really important. And I would just say there's no one will ever fault you. I can't imagine for saying I want to stay connected. I think that's uh that can only lead to positive things.

Rich H. 54:03

And if they do, you've just realized who you might not want to work for.

Vanessa L. 54:06

That is also true.

Rich H. 54:08

We're gonna go on a rapid fire. All right, Judy, you're up.

Judy S. 54:11

All right, what's your favorite comfort food? Pasta.

Vanessa L. 54:14

Nachos, absolutely. Sorry. That was a big departure. Nachos are my comfort food.

Rich H. 54:18

You had to give that first answer to get to the second real answer. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Vanessa L. 54:21

I was like, no, I don't want pansa, I want nachos.

Rich H. 54:24

All right, so I'm gonna stay with the food. What's the favorite meal you've ever had and tie it to a favorite city that you've been to?

Vanessa L. 54:33

I actually don't even know what I ate. I was in Costa Rica with my husband, and we had a sunset dinner on the water, and it was fish. I know because I only ate fish that I was in Costa Rica, but it was just the perfect setting, perfect timing. He and I were just in a fantastic place and it was beautiful service, but one glass of wine, a slow like roll of appetizer, salad, and main course, but and everything was really fresh. So it was just like clearly farm vegetables and freshly caught fish and all of that.

Speaker 55:12

So I love that. Perfect.

Tony W. 55:15

And then hey, if you could go anywhere in the world for 24 hours, you didn't need to worry about travel. You could just beam yourself there like you know, Star Trek. Where where would you go?

Vanessa L. 55:25

Top of Everest. Because I don't think I'd ever climb. I would love to do it. But also, if I mean I love to travel, and the number one piece is like all the faraway places. So, you know, I I would love to explore the Middle East more, but you it takes a day of your life to get there and a day of your life to get back, and it's just hard to give that up. But I think I would say Everest just because I would love to see it. I'd love to be there, I'd love to meet the people who are who made it.

The Next-Gen Consumer Shift

Speaker 55:53

I don't love cold, so I don't see myself taking the time to get acclimated at base and make it.

Rich H. 56:00

That's become a question that I like because I would have never thought to take the Everest route. And now my answer would probably be the Antarctica. Vanessa, thank you very much. This is fantastic. I am looking forward to getting this out for our audience and for students. There's a terrific amount of advice and a lot of, if you'll forgive it, soul searching that I think we can each do both as leaders and as emerging professionals. So thanks for the time.

Vanessa L. 56:26

Thank you so much. I enjoyed the conversation.

Rich H. 56:29

Thanks, Vanessa.

Vanessa L. 56:30

Take care.