The Discipline of Leadership: Ken Hicks on Service, Strategy, and Success

Strategy gets headlines; execution wins seasons.

From West Point to the helm of PetSmart, Ken Hicks has built a leadership legacy defined by discipline, empathy, and execution. Before leading billion-dollar turnarounds at Foot Locker and Academy Sports + Outdoors, his first retail job was far simpler — filling bags of dirt at a local nursery, where he learned the patience and precision that still shape his leadership philosophy today.

In this episode of Retail Relates, Rich Honiball and Tony Wells (a fellow service-academy graduate) sit down with Ken to explore what it means to lead with purpose and humility. They discuss how lessons from military service translate into modern leadership, why recognition is a strategy, and how culture is built one consistent act at a time.

Ken’s journey reminds us that leadership isn’t about control — it’s about clarity, care, and creating conditions for others to succeed. A conversation on service, strategy, and the human side of execution.

🎧 Available now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, GoodPods and your favorite platforms.

Ken Hicks Bio:

Ken Hicks is a seasoned retail leader with nearly 40 years of experience driving growth, profitability, and purpose across some of the world’s most recognized brands. He joined PetSmart in 2024 as President and CEO, bringing deep expertise in retail strategy, merchandising, operations, and customer experience.

Before joining PetSmart, Ken served as CEO and Executive Chairman at Academy Sports + Outdoors, where he guided the company through a successful IPO and organizational transformation. Prior to that, he was CEO of Foot Locker, leading a major turnaround that revitalized customer experience, improved profitability, and significantly grew market value. Earlier in his career, he held senior leadership roles with JCPenney, Payless ShoeSource, Home Shopping Network, May Department Stores, and McKinsey & Company.

Ken is a graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point and a U.S. Army veteran. He also holds an MBA with highest distinction from Harvard Business School. He serves on the Boards of PetSmart and Academy Sports + Outdoors. Ken and his wife Lucy, married for over 50 years, share a Boston Terrier named Skywalker—and a belief that great leadership is measured not by authority, but by the success of those you lead.

Chapters

• 0:00 Setting The Stage: Strategy Vs Execution
• 2:07 Ken’s Path: West Point To Retail
• 5:15 Three Pivots That Shaped A Leader
• 9:42 Military Lessons Applied To Commerce
• 13:06 Recognition As Strategy: The Pecan Pie
• 17:00 Choosing The Field Over The Press Box
• 20:20 Empowerment Over Orders
• 22:56 The New Retail Customer And Competition
• 25:23 Foot Locker Europe: Local Markets Win
• 28:56 Singles And Home Runs In Retail
• 30:58 Petsmart: Caution And Optimism
• 33:56 The Artillery Lesson: Lead Through Others
• 37:47 Picking Turnarounds: Good Market, Poor Execution
• 41:31 Vision, Mission, Values In Your Pocket
• 44:19 Details, People, And Store Managers
• 46:46 Hiring For Care, Accountability, Development

Transcript

Rich H.: 0:46

Strategy gets headlines, execution wins seasons, and Ken Hicks has built a career on both. Before he led turnarounds, he learned formations and then brought that precision to retail. A West Point graduate and U.S. Army veteran, Ken carried forward discipline, teamwork, and a mission-first mindset. And his first retail job? A nursery, filling bags of dirt where he learned patience and the value of sweating small details. I'm Rich Honeyball, and I'm joined today by Tony Wells, a Service Academy graduate himself, Marine Infantry officer, C-suite leader, and co-host for today's episode. We sit down with Ken Hicks, president and CEO of PetSmart, where he's leading the company's next chapter by doubling down on people, pets, and execution across a complex national footprint. Prior to joining PetSmart in 2024, Ken led Academy Sports and Outdoors through a successful IPO as CEO and executive chairman, and earlier revitalized Foot Locker by focusing on the fundamentals, the customer experience, operational excellence, and team empowerment. Earlier roles at JCPenney, Payless, Home Shopping Network, May Department Stores, and McKenzie sharpened his strategy to execution muscle. He also earned his MBA with highest distinction from Harvard Business School. He and his wife Lucy married for over 50 years, share a Boston terrier named Skywalker. In this episode, Ken shares lessons from service and commerce, leading with purpose, using a recognition as strategy, and building cultures that win on consistency. And woven through his story is the reason he leads the way that he does. A belief shaped over a lifetime that great leadership isn't measured by authority, but rather by the success of the people that you lead. Welcome back to our latest episode of Retail Relates. I am joined today by United States Naval Academy graduate Tony Wells. And I say that because our guest today is West Point graduate Ken Hicks. And so at some point towards the end, we'll probably have that Army Navy banter where we uh we joke and I will stand on the sidelines and appreciate the fact that at the end of any game where Army and Navy play, it's one team, one mission. But it's a pleasure to welcome Ken Hicks to Retail Relates today.

Ken H.: 3:09

Thank you very much, Rich. It's great to be here.

Rich H.: 3:11

In addition to being a West Point graduate, you are also the CEO of PetSmart. And we've just finished reading your bio. It is impressive. And I have the dubious honor of having worked for an organization that you led. And so it's it's a double honor to have you on today. So appreciate you joining us.

Ken H.: 3:33

Thanks for inviting me. I appreciate it.

Rich H.: 3:35

So since we've read your bio and we will have an extended bio in the show notes, one of the things that we try to do is narrow down the sum of you to those three pivot points that throughout your career, personal life, however you choose to go on the journey, have brought you to where you are today.

Ken H.: 3:57

I would say the first was West Point. It was, you know, a challenging environment, and you learned what you were made of. You learned uh the importance of team, and you you learned how to lead well at the same time, you're getting a good education. And it really was influential in in my life and my thinking. You know, still stay in touch with many of the people I went to school with and many of the lessons I learned while at West Point. The second would be when I went to McKinsey. I tell people when I went to Harvard Business School, the thing I could do best in the world was shoot cannons. When I got out of Harvard Business School, the thing I could do best in the world was shoot cannons. Uh I learned a lot of stuff, but I didn't know how the business world worked and operated. McKinsey taught me how to approach a problem and think and how to plan, analyze, and plan, and then execute those. Execution is what uh the world's all about, is getting it done. And then finally, I would say at the May Company, I had the privilege of working for a true legend, Dave Farrell. In fact, Sam Walton said Dave Farrell was the best merchant in the country. So that that's pretty high praise. He really taught me retail and how retail worked and ways to approach retail, but he also taught me how to really understand the customer. And that's what's one of the most critical things in any business environment is really knowing the customer and being able to serve them and and give them what they want.

Rich H.: 5:37

So normally I ask the question, is this the path that you imagined? I'm gonna alter that question a little bit because obviously if you went to West Point, I doubt that you went to West Point to one day wind up as a C-suite leader in retail. So instead, I'm gonna ask, what drove you to West Point? What drove you to joining the Army?

Ken H.: 5:58

It wasn't the family. I my father was like all most of his generation. He was uh in World War II, he was made uh corporal by an act of Congress. He was a POW and all POWs were raised one rank. And so he was a PSC during the war and uh PSC and a POW. But really, I went to West Point the same reason that Dwight Eisenhower went to West Point. It was the best education I could afford. Uh it it was they were gonna pay me to go to school. It was a scholarship and uh gonna let me play football. So a great place. It was either that or go to uh Southwest Texas and become a dentist. And I thought being an army officer would be more fun.

Tony W.: 6:40

That was probably a you know a good choice to go to West Point.

Ken H.: 6:44

But much better than Annapolis. Uh oh, soon we start we started so early. Well, no, I couldn't get in. I they my eyes were too bad. I you know that uh cat uh Annapolis is a much uh much tougher school to get into.

Tony W.: 6:59

Okay, that's for the record. We got that on the record that a West Point grad said that.

Ken H.: 7:03

Well, because they I went in during during Vietnam. It was a lot easier. I couldn't get in now. A lot more people wanted to go to Annapolis than to West Point. And uh they're both good schools, just one's better than the other.

Tony W.: 7:17

You know, I I think it's maybe you can jump in here, Ken, on this one. Just I've always found being trained as someone in the military that kind of engaging with customers and interacting with them and figuring out the competitive landscape to me often had a lot of military parallels as an infantry officer. You know, find the enemy, you know, or the find the customer, engage, and then figure out how to answer competitive threats and community. Like there's a lot of similarities, I've at least I found. I don't know if you find that to be true.

Ken H.: 7:48

Definitely. In fact, yesterday we were having a meeting about a marketing campaign that we were looking at, and we said, you know, this is war. We we're fighting the competition and we want to win. And we've got to be pretty bold in what we do. I actually wasn't the one who first said used the war analogy. Some one of my other people who was not a military background said that. And I said, Yeah, and you you learn how to plan, how to execute. The other thing that you really learn how to do is lead people. And you know as well as I do that you start off with by being, and at West Point and Annapolis, we call them the same thing, a plebe. You are a server, you learn how to take orders, you learn how to do things before you learn how to give orders. And you understand. One of the analogies I use is when you ask somebody, you're out there on a mission, and you ask somebody, go down to that intersection and make sure it's clear. And the person says, if I go down there, I'm putting my life at risk. If I stay here and disobey the order, you'll send me back home. They do it because they believe there are three things I tell people that they really look for in a leader. They're competent and they made you competent, that they're confident in you and what you're telling them to do, and you made them confident. And three, that you care. You wouldn't do this unless it was important. You care about them. And people understand that if if that's what a leader does, they are willing to do it for you. And there's there's an old expression, you go to war for queen and country, but you die for the bloke to your left and the bloke to your right. And you do that because you have confidence and in their competence and and you know they care. And that's so important. And it's not just in the military, it's out in the in the field. I spend a lot of time in stores talking to store associates and hourlies, and they know that you care. I go down in the lunchroom, I have lunch with with the people every day, and I sit at sit at table, and they know, okay, that he listens to us. May not always agree with us, but listens and wants to do what is right for the company and right for us.

Rich H.: 10:05

And I will attest, having been in a uh meeting room with Ken on more than one occasion, that there were either military or war analogies or sports. And and they were meaningful. When you talk, I and I'm gonna go into the lesson part, Ken, but and I want to make sure that my memory isn't failing me. It's interesting because you went to West Point, you served in the army, you'll say this is war, but then you're you're in the lunchroom having lunch with those that you're serving with, and there's that humility. And I seem to remember pecan pies making their way through to those that did a great job. Can we talk about that for a second before I jump into the lesson?

Ken H.: 10:49

I I still do that, by the way. Uh, I've given away thousands of pecan pies and letters, handwritten notes to people when they do a good job. We just had up a town hall, and the woman who set it up got an excellent speaker, and I just sent her a note. But recognizing people, you know, and again, go back to a military analogy. In in the civilian world, you know, business world, people do things, well, they get a bigger bonus. Well, they get stock options. Well, I get in the military, they get a ribbon and they they will put their life at risk for a ribbon. And they do it because it's really that personal recognition. And the butt the comp pie, if you remember, comes in a wooden box, and they didn't really care about the pie. It's really actually was a really good pie. But what they cared about was the box because they would put it up on their desk as the ribbon that I did good. I had the best sales for the quarter, or I that project really went well. And when you call the whole team in and you congratulate them, and I tell them, I said, success has a sweet taste. This pie is to remind you of that sweet taste so that you want to have success again.

Rich H.: 12:03

I love that story. And I remember the boxes and I remember the consistency, and it's actually kind of heartwarming to know that that's still something that has passed along. So you were in the army, you went to McKinsey. What was the first retail position you had?

Ken H.: 12:19

When I left McKinsey, I tell people, I said, there's four basic places you can be associated with the football team. You can be a player on the field, those are the people that make things happen. You can be one of the head coaches on the sidelines, they're the ones who set the game plan, make sure the right resources are out there, give the direction, or a coach in the press box who calls down to the coach on the sideline who tells the person on the field what to execute. The consultants are up in the press box, you know, and nobody ever said fire the coach in the press box. It was the people on the field. And the thing that I knew after being in the military that the con that I wanted to be on the field. And the other thing I knew is that I still, having consulted, didn't really know a lot about business. And so I went to a company called May Department Stores Company, which at the time was a very big uh successful company, had 26 years of consecutive quarterly profit increases. They had a history of taking the position of senior vice president of planning, using that as a training position to get you out into a real merchandise role. And so I was the head of planning, which my McKenzie background helped me with. But I I tell people I basically carried the clipboard and made sure the Dave Farrell, the head coach, didn't trip over the his headphone head headphone wires. Um that was before radio headphones. I spent back then we worked five and a half days a week. I spent 12 hours a day, five and a half days a week, watching him, going visiting stores, being in strategy meetings, being in operating review meetings, and learning about retail. And that was probably as close to a PhD in retail as you could get.

Tony W.: 14:12

Ken, when you think about you've led a lot of bugs, something that you think people think about you or the area of retail that is completely wrong.

Ken H.: 14:23

They think I know a lot. I do know some things because I'm I'm old, I've been around a long time. What I learn, I learn every day. And so people think, well, geez, you know how this works. No, but I'm willing to try different things and I'm listening to people. And uh one of the funny stories was I had uh my head of marketing at Penny's, Mike Boyleson, when I left after nine years, he said, Ken, I've worked for you for nine years. I don't think you ever told me to do anything. You said I knew what you wanted me to do, but you never said do it. The reason why I told him I said no, because if I tell you to do it, I own it. If you figure it out and do it on your own, you own it and you're gonna accomplish it. So people think that I I know a lot. I'm just trying to get people to think and do what they know is right.

Tony W.: 15:08

Nine years and and and you gave them no explicit orders. That's that's interesting coming from a West Wynagrat.

Ken H.: 15:13

I I may have and he forgot it, but yeah. But I didn't do I didn't do it a lot. If you ask the people now, it's the same way. I leave it up to them to make decisions. And what I tell people, I won't let them fall over the cliff. I'll grab them by the belt if they grab me by the belt before I walk off the cliff too.

Tony W.: 15:30

You know, speaking of retail, how do you think it's changing now? I mean, there's we can talk about lots of retail, but what what do you see as the biggest kind of evolutionary element to retail right now?

Ken H.: 15:44

Well, I I think there are a couple of things. One, it's become much more competitive. And the irony is there's less retailers, but more competitive because they're they're better and bigger. The second is the customer is much, much more informed. They were very, very dependent on the retailer to tell them. And now the retailers, in many cases, not the one who tells them. They either get it online or they get it from some influencer or what they saw on the screen. And so probably I would say one of the biggest changes is the edification of the customer and what they know coming in, as opposed to years ago when they were completely dependent on a sales associate to say, here's what's best and here's what you should do.

Tony W.: 16:32

Can you share a recent strategy or idea that exceeded your expectations? Either you thought, oh man, that I'm not sure this is gonna work.

Ken H.: 16:40

Maybe you let your team move forward with it or Yeah, this this one i isn't quite as as recent, but it was one that was a big strategy and turned out to be a big winner. Was when I was at Footlocker and took over, we were trying to figure out how to, you know, how do we grow? Uh we had had several uh years of of negative sales comps and said, you know, what we need to do is we're a bigger opportunity because we we had saturated the United States with Footlocker and and champs and lady footlocker and kid footlocker stores, where we had an opportunity was in Europe. We had 400 stores in Europe and we were not doing well in Europe. And the reason we weren't doing well in Europe is we were looking at Europe like the United States. All of Europe was homogeneous. That was not the case. In Italy, they wore sneakers for fashion. In Germany, they wore them to work out in. And they also you probably have never even seen a brown sneaker, but they wore brown sneakers. England, they wore them for everyday shoes. In France, they wanted the latest American shoe. And so what we did is we were going to double our store count and we were gonna market by country. That became one of our biggest growth vehicles was in Europe. As we expanded the number of stores, we we made an acquisition of uh a running store in Germany. And uh really, it was not intended to be the big growth vehicle, but it turned out to be the big growth vehicle. And that was really exciting to do. One of the things about retail, that that was a home run. The other thing, and the reason more recent looking at things was retail's a whole bunch of singles. You do little things, and so they they exceed your expectations. One of the things, uh, for example, at Academy was we were very good in wood bats, but we didn't have a lot of high-end bats. And we went to Mariuchi and we put in the high-end Mariuchi aluminum bats, and we're saying, boy, you know, our highest price bat we have is like $150. These Mariucchi started $300 and they flew out the door. That was one that told us we have a customer who also wants best, as well as the customer who wants good and better.

Tony W.: 18:55

One more, then I'm gonna throw it back over to Rich, which is when you look at the landscape right now, what are you most excited about or more cautious about? Either you think you're either one you want up about the retail space right now. Anything got you super excited or super worried right now?

Ken H.: 19:13

Well, the the cautious is the customer. Right now, the customer is challenged. And that's that's a nice word for saying they're under a lot of pressure, financial pressure, a lot of things going on in their life. And we're trying to to win their confidence to buy products from at Petsmart. We're trying to make sure that they they have pets and pets continue to grow. And some people say, I can't afford that pet. And how do we take care of them? The thing that has me super excited is that there are new ideas and things coming out all the time that really show the customer is still there. A couple of examples. One is the fastest growing part of pet food is fresh froze. People are spending $10, $12, $14 a meal for their pets. That's a McDonald's meal, but they're doing that every day for their pets, and people are willing to do that. So I my belief and in my current role is people still really care about their pets. Another new idea that's a crazy idea is a thing called the kitty litter robot. It's a big shell that cleans itself $700. You know, we sell a $29.99 pin that you can put litter in, or you can buy this $700 self-cleaning one. We're selling that $700 self-cleaning one very well. There's a customer out there that's not just looking how do I get the cheapest. They're looking for how do I get what makes my life easy. Thanks for sharing that.

Rich H.: 20:43

So the only thing I've really, and you'll claim there's more, but the only thing I've seen you be unsuccessful at is retiring.

Ken H.: 20:49

My wife has has I I've failed it twice. I'm not sure she'll let me fail it a third time, so I have to stay here for quite a while. So we we have lessons, and one of the lessons, best lessons when when uh when I was screwing up, was when I took over my my artillery battery when I was a young captain. Artillery battery has about 140 troops in it, and it has six cannons. I was very proud of the fact that I was the best cannoneer. I could do better than all of my troops, although my job was not to shoot the cannon, and I could only fire one at a time. And I had a first sergeant, first sergeant Hall. He was probably, not probably, he was 20 years plus years older than been to Vietnam three times, had a bronze star medal, and I was his boss. In the Army, you call the first sergeant the top sergeant because they're the top sergeant of the of the unit. And the first couple of months did not go well. We were screwing up right and left, and we were missing things and and not doing things well. One evening he sat me down, uh, or he I he sat down in my office across from me. He said, Sir, you're not enjoying yourself, are you? And I said, No, top, it's this this is tougher than I thought it was gonna be. And he said, Tell you what, sir, you give us the direction and and tell us what you want us to accomplish and give us the rope. And myself, the exo, the executive officer, the other sergeants, and I, we will get it done for you. Give us the direction, let us do it. You don't have to do it. I still to this day remember that lesson where somebody who worked for me sat me down and counseled me, but also gave me some of the best advice I'd ever had about you can't do it all as you move up the chain. And that was one of the things about being the best gunner. I can only fire one gun at a time. So the battery's only 17% effective. My job was to make the six gunners I had better than me. And then the battery's 100% effective because my job was not to shoot a cannon, it was to get people to learn and know how to do that well. And so that was one of the things that the first sergeant taught me and that I learned is my job is not to do anything. I don't show up. I'm sitting here talking, there's talking to you. Companies out there running, and it's doing fine. People every day. Nobody notices that I'm not there. Our store manager's not there, they notice that. The per the buyer isn't placing an order, they notice that. My job is to make sure that we have the the best people with the right direction and they have the right resources, and they do it. And then stand back and let them go, not get in the way and screw it up.

Rich H.: 23:26

I love that analogy. And I think some of the best bosses that I've worked for have a similar mentality. When you do get pulled back into an organization or you have invested in another opportunity, what is it that you look for that draws you in and that says this has the potential for success?

Ken H.: 23:48

People say, Oh, you've had success at, you know, we when I was at Pennies, we did we were doing well. You remember, and we were the turnaround of the decade. And then Footlocker Academy, and and then the reason I came here, I look and say, is it a good business? Does it have a good customer base? Does the customer like it? Is it growing? Is it one that will be around? And are they operating poorly? Because the first part of that I can't do anything about, but I can work on the on the execution part, and that's what I focus on. If all the other things are good in the market, I fortunate enough I went when sneakers started, you were really flying. I'm a footlocker. You know, I was at Academy when COVID and after COVID, when everybody all of a sudden wanted to do sports and they were looking for something to entertain. And then here, the pet growth. That's a good solid industry. But if you aren't executing well, you won't do well. But that you can fix.

Tony W.: 24:50

I I had an old boss that said, then retail is details. Yeah. It's all about everything about it's the small things that matter. And and you build on those, and then you get to, you know, get to good operation or good execution.

Ken H.: 25:05

So it is. And that's when when you sit down and you look and you develop your strategy, you you learn and you don't, you know, you're not looking for the next shiny nickel. You're looking for how to execute. And, you know, it's blocking. You know, I never did fully understand the three yards in the cloud of dust, but it's four yards in a cloud of dust. But you make it clear to the people and you give them that. And one of the things I've done, and this I learned from again from when I was in the army. When in the army, we carried the code of conduct and our daily battle mission in our pocket every day, and you knew what it was. You didn't have to refer to it every day. When I got to to Penny's, I I wrote that up actually at May Company. I wrote it up for May Company for Dave Farrell, and then at Penny's and did it at Footlocker, did it at Academy. We've got everybody, we tell everybody, here is open it up, here's our vision, here's our mission, here's our values. This is the strategy that we have. Because we're a private company, they didn't want me to put, well, you put the goals here, but at the other public companies, I put the goals because they were public. And everybody in the company knows what that is. And I carry it around and periodically both. Now, does that fit our vision? Does that meet our fit? Or does that fit our values? But people know what it is that we're working for. And it there's no question. Our vision is to be the best pet retailer in the country. How we're going to do that is bring the joy of pets to everybody. And so we think about is that does that fit our vision to be the best? And so our values are customer first, our values are excellence in execution. And those are things that that are important. Team Pet Smart.

Tony W.: 26:47

Awesome. Just on those retail details things, it's very weird. I find myself when I go into a store and the visual merchandising or the stock, like I go in and there's no product on the shelves, or it's not pulled to the front, or I find myself not enjoying the shopping experience because I'm just like, there's so much wrong here.

Ken H.: 27:08

What's where's the store manager? That's the other thing about retail, because it is the detail, but it's a people business. You go in, you because you talk about that, you go into one store. I was out in a city and they had two stores seven miles apart. And I go in one store and there were all sorts of issues. I go seven miles further and they had executed to the nines. And it was because the manager, now, our job is to have that district manager take the learnings from one to the other and not accept why do I have two stores that are seven miles apart that are executing so differently? That's a leader who's not doing their job, that district leader, and they've got to make sure that those store managers do their job.

Rich H.: 27:55

So when you look at investing in people, whether it's a seasoned leader that you're bringing on board or an entry-level person, what are the main characteristics that you're looking for? What is that piece that you want to make sure they have coming in? And you and the organization can help build the rest.

Ken H.: 28:15

First of all, they they've got to care. One of that's one of the other things about the business I'm in now. Our people are all passionate about pets. So they they care. The other is to take responsibility as a leader, not point at somebody else or say, well, you know, this happened or that happened, you know, big line now that everybody talking about. Well, you know, it's those tariffs, you know, that those tariffs that's that's the problem. They hit us all the same. Why are some doing better and some not doing better? So you can't use that as an excuse. So you have to take responsibility and and be accountable. And and the other is the ability to develop people and care about people. And if you care about the people and you work to develop them and have a good team, they will execute well. They will follow the details, they will use their initiative to get things done. And if you don't do that, if they if you don't care, if you don't not responsible for what you do and you're not willing to develop a team, you won't be successful.

Tony W.: 29:18

It was like time's up and kind of being a servant leader.

Ken H.: 29:22

It it really is. There are probably some businesses where you can sit up on high and tell people, but in retail, you've got to be out there. People have to know that you care about them and that you're willing to do the things that they have to do. And one of the things, and you know this, Tony, that you learn is you would never ask somebody to do something that you wouldn't be willing to do.

Tony W.: 29:45

Exactly.

Ken H.: 29:46

And if you're not willing to do it, then don't ask them. And the people know they are, it doesn't matter at what level, they can sort out who doesn't care and who does care really quickly. And one of the things when you make a move on a person who you didn't think was performing well, usually what happens, the people go, What took you so long? We knew it.

Rich H.: 30:07

So if you're talking to somebody who is not aware of retailer experience in retail and they have misconceptions, what what do you tell somebody about the retail industry that doesn't have the insight and the inside that you do that might get them to get a little bit more excited about the industry?

Ken H.: 30:25

It's one of the most fun businesses that can be out there because you're making people happy. Very few people walk out of a store upset. No, they're happy. You know, particularly the businesses I'm in. I only do fun stuff, like I said, you know, sneakers, sporting goods, guitars, and uh pets. They walk out happy. And if we don't serve them properly, And they can't find it, or we we couldn't help explain the product to them, then they leave unhappy. So one of the great things about retail is you make people happy. You know, you fill their day. Another thing is, unlike a lot of other businesses, when I was consulting, I did uh electric utilities. They make one decision every 10 years, and it's got to be exactly right, whether they build a power plant or not. I did oil and gas. They make a decision about every three to five years whether or not to drill a field. And that's gotta be pretty close to perfect. Insurance, decision every year where they come out with a new product. And they got to be pretty close to right. You know, even package goods, they make a decision every 90 days. You know, do I put a new uh seasoning on the chips or make a different size bag or whatever? In retail, you make decisions every second. And the good news, we're the only profession other than the NBA where if you're right about half the time, you go to the Hall of Fame. But you can make a mistake as long as you learn from it. Lord knows I made a lot of mistakes. But if you learn from it, don't repeat it, you get a chance to try. And the next day, people say, well, it's like a marathon. They said, No, a marathon has an end. Every day you get a new chance to to excel. Every day. And that that's fun. It's not like, boy, we built that power plant in the wrong place and and it's a disaster. No, we get it. Tomorrow, my definition of a merchant is a constant critic and internal optimist. Boy, if I would have done this today, it would have been better. But wait till tomorrow. Tomorrow is going to be great. That's the fun thing about retail is you're making people happy and you always get to improve. You you can you never get to the point where it's perfect. You can always make it better.

Rich H.: 32:31

So you talk about the categories after JC Penny. You've got guitars, you've got sporting goods, you've got sneakers, you've got pets. Let's talk wine. Oh, yeah. That's a nice subject. So, what drove you to say, I'm gonna own a vineyard?

Ken H.: 32:46

Well, it was my wife. I moved her 16 times. And when I retired the first time, I was thinking I'd find something else. I didn't. So I told her, you know, you pick this time. I will let you. I picked the first 16, you pick this one. Uh and most people look for a place and find a house. She found a house in in the Napa Valley, and it came with a vineyard. You know, she said, Do you really want to move out? I said, I told you, wherever you want to go, I'm going. And so we moved out there, and four months later, the opportunity came up at Academy. And so I left her out there, and she's now master of the vineyard, and she loves it. She said, I, you know, I I never knew how much fun this could be. And they just harvest harvested our grapes last week, and um, we had a bumper crop, so we're excited.

Rich H.: 33:35

Any pictures of you, Lucy Styles, stomping on the grapes?

Ken H.: 33:38

We no, we don't do that. We're we're just the the we just have the vineyard. Although I do have a picture of her holding up, and she has one of me holding up our our a bucket of the grapes that were just picked uh last week.

Rich H.: 33:49

So we're gonna move into some of the advice for those emerging professionals and those that are are students and thinking about retail. Before that, though, I will cue this up. Is there a question that you would want to ask those who are studying right now or who are emerging leaders? What would you want to ask them and get feedback on?

Ken H.: 34:12

I guess what I'd like to know is what would they, what would you like to be remembered for? You know, think about that as you think about what you what you plan to do and what you want to do. Because everybody, you know, what school do I get into? What's my first job? What do I, what do I do? They're worried about that, but you can change. You know, Tony and I are good examples to your point. At one point in my life, I was shooting cannon. And then at another point in life, I have responsibility for women's lingerie. You know, that who would have thought that? You can change. You can find something that you really enjoy and change. And people are so worried that they I have to do this. The other thing is you don't know how young you are. I've got to be this by this date, or this by this date, or this by I've been president of what, six companies, CEO of three. I didn't get those jobs till I was in my late 40s. I spent six years in the in the military and you know, which had nothing to do with retail. You can change and and you've got time. Don't rush yourself. Make sure you're ready. I I think both of you would agree. You've seen a number of people who got promoted too early and their career was over because of that. It's better to take a little longer and be truly successful than move too quick and not be able to achieve your goals. So think about what it is that you want to be and what you want to be remembered for, and then work forward towards that. But remember, you have you have a lot of time to do that.

Tony W.: 35:42

And Dan, when you see young uh folks starting out on their journey, I think there's often this idea of like, how do I break out from the pack? How do I get noticed? Do you have thoughts for young folks just on early guidance in their career, how they get noticed, how do they get that tough, you know, that tough assignment that's going to challenge them and how how they should be kind of looking at that. Bob's there?

Ken H.: 36:07

First is listen and learn. You because while you're young, nobody's looking for you to come up with the next greatest invention. And so take a little time and learn. And then when you're given an assignment, do that extra. Okay, I want you to do this analysis on this particular issue. And when you give so many people, they do the analysis and they hand you here it is, as opposed to I did the analysis, and by the way, I saw this and I saw this, and I think this is something we should look at. And you go, hmm, that's interesting. And by the way, I did it, and here it is. And you do that extra. And then they say, Oh, I'm gonna give them a tougher assignment next time, a more important assignment. And then you do the same thing, and eventually you get recognized, you know, Tony's the guy who I can count on and it's gonna give me some good thoughts, and do that extra. I got to move him up so that he can have even more impact. That extra, and not just they told me to do this, I did it, here it is. Think about what it is. And and two things. One, you get recognized for, but more importantly, you'll learn from it. It wasn't just I took a bunch of numbers and multiplied two columns together and divided by the third. I learned it what was happening. Or maybe I was wrong. Maybe the person said, no, no, no, no. This is what's going on here. Well, now I've learned something for the next time I do that analysis.

Tony W.: 37:27

Is there something that you wish someone had told you early in your career? Kind of that something you walk by that you're like, wow, I wish I would have done that differently, or I wish I would have known this earlier in my career when I was in my 20s?

Ken H.: 37:41

No, because my career in the 20s was very different than my career. Yeah, yeah. Uh, but one of the things people asked me, because I have had different jobs and and and moved, and they said, was there a job or was there a decision that you made in your career that you would change? Because there were a couple of times I left McKinsey for a while to go to a startup selling bulk storage silos in Buffalo, New York. I wound up selling the company. I went back to McKinsey. And then I went to home shopping for a year. And people say, Well, oh, was that a mistake? And I said, No, I learned from it. Make whatever it is. I tell people there's a reason the windshield's a lot bigger than the rear view mirror. Make that forward looking. You need the rear view mirror for the history and the learning, but look forward, make that decision a good decision. And it will be a good decision. If you fret about it and worry and say, well, I woulda, shoulda, coulda, it won't be successful. But if you think about it uh as, you know, I'm gonna make this work, it'll work. And then if you don't like it or there's something else comes along, then move on and do something else. Don't say, you know, I'm a failure and and wallow. Make it work. One of the things is, and as I said, my definition of a merchant is that, you know, half of it's a journal optimist. I'm a very optimistic person. I I believe, you know, we can get things done. And it may not be exactly how I thought it would come out. I can guarantee you, there is no way 20 years ago, 30 years ago, whatever, that I would think that I would be here where I am and what I'm doing, or even five years ago. Things work out if you if you make them work out. I like that.

Tony W.: 39:18

Windshield's bigger than the rear view for a purpose. You know, in New West Point grads, you guys really you continue to impress me.

Ken H.: 39:24

You gotta remember we we have to speak very plainly because we're not that smart, you know. If we were smart, we would say that's an old that's a marine infantryman.

Tony W.: 39:33

That's uh that I gotta claim that one. Yeah, yeah.

Ken H.: 39:36

That if we we don't sit on a boat and eating a missile, we're we're out in the field.

Tony W.: 39:40

Hey, I'm you and I are closer line than you'd think because I was marine infantry. You the ship was just for taxi servers from point A to point B. That's it. That's the only reason I want to be on the ship.

Ken H.: 39:50

You're right. You wished you were in the army.

Rich H.: 39:54

As a civilian, I'm staying out of this one.

Ken H.: 39:56

Yeah, but you're between us.

Rich H.: 39:58

I know, I know. I'm gonna add this one and then we'll uh we'll pivot into the rapid fire round. Do you find that we are, from a business perspective, investing too much in the weaknesses and the red and the negative and not enough and the positives and the strengths?

Ken H.: 40:14

Definitely, but I don't think it's just business. You watch the news, you watch Dancing with the Stars. The world loves to criticize. I tell people all the time, because I am not opposed to criticism. Criticism in and of itself isn't a bad thing, but make it positive criticism and figure out how to make things work. I I tell people, you know, one of the challenges we have a lot is we say, okay, we're gonna do something. And the first thing, the white core puzzle of us kicks in and says, Well, we've got this problem and this problem, and say, okay, how much is the first thing? Well, it's 9% of the customers. Okay, I'll settle for 91%. How much is the second? Well, it's 4%. Okay, I'll take 87%. You get 80% 7% right. That's a pretty good grade, right? Yeah. Now you're gonna you want to think of something else why we can't do it? Figure out how to how we get the 87%, not why we can't do the you know, the 13%. But we start out that way. You know, one of the things we talk about here is don't tell me why we can't. Tell me how we can.

Rich H.: 41:15

I think that's perfect advice. All right, rapid fire, Tony. I'm gonna put in a bonus one. I'm gonna warn Ken now. So why don't you go ahead and take the first and third? I'll grab a second and then close us out. Oh, I gotta go.

Ken H.: 41:27

What's your favorite comfort food? Chocolate. And as you can tell, I enjoy it. It's one of the four basic food groups. What are the other three? Chocolate, cheese, bacon, and butter. Bake any of those you put any of those on anything, it will make it better. And if you can put multiples, that's even better.

Rich H.: 41:46

Bacon, I didn't see that one coming. I can't argue with that. All right, so you are hosting a dinner party. You can invite any three people. They can be alive or past, they can be real or fictional. Who are the three that you're inviting over to the vineyard for dinner?

Ken H.: 42:01

One would be Eisenhower. He doesn't get credit for all the things he did uh, you know, militarily and politically. I mean, all the way from World War I to, you know, the Cold War, just understanding all the things he saw and did. Just amazing. Another would be Sam Walton, because as a retailer, what he built was phenomenal. And I fortunately did not get to meet him. I got to meet Bill Glass and other people from Walmart, but I never met him. He, to me, when we talked, Tony and I are talking about leadership, he to me is so much of what he accomplished. And his ability to inspire people was unbelievable. And that's something that I would love to learn from. And the third, and this is this kind of a weird one, but I I was thinking about it last night because I was looking for something on the TV. So I watched is Sherlock Holmes. Just because how his mind worked. One of the things in retail that you have to do is be so observant and look and see things. And in fact, my wife accuses me sometimes. She said, Can you know you just state the obvious? You see things other people don't see. But that's he was able to do it. Being able to, because so many times when you tell people things, and I tell I tell people it's why retailers have slow foreheads, is because we say, Oh, geez, yeah, that's right. You know, we keep doing this. And we we see when you when somebody explains it to you, and he had that ability to see. So anyway, I think that would be interesting. I I don't know how they'd get along, but three uh three people who I I have questions that I'd want to ask.

Tony W.: 43:44

Hey, Ken, speaking of joy, what's the best thing that you've recently purchased that made you happy? Because you were talking earlier about making people happy.

Ken H.: 43:54

I would say dinner with my wife. You know, we've been married 52 plus years now. The joke is, oh, how'd you do that? Well, we've been together about 20-something of it. She's back in Napa, I'm in Phoenix. Any people say, Where's the favorite, where's your favorite place? Wherever she is. She's a wonderful woman. She has one fault, her choice in men. But besides that, you know, whenever I'm there, we go to lunch and we just we really enjoy each other. And I I was thinking about material things, and I really haven't bought anything. I couldn't think of something. So, but I did enjoy lunch at uh Mustards with my wife last weekend.

Rich H.: 44:31

I love the answer. And one of the things that I enjoy is after editing the podcast and we release it, my wife will listen to it on the way to work. We've been married, we're we're not at 50 years, but we've hit three decades, and so I'm sure I'm going to get the text when she hears this part of it.

Ken H.: 44:48

And well, just remember the most the two most important words to a successful marriage.

Rich H.: 44:54

I'm sorry. Yes, dear. Got it.

Ken H.: 44:57

Tony's got it. Yes, dear.

Rich H.: 45:00

All right. So I am going to uh uh be a little bit agile and I'm gonna ask the fourth question, and it's yours because I'm curious as to what your answer would be. What do you want to be remembered for?

Ken H.: 45:11

I was actually asked that question when I retired from both Foot Locker and Academy by somebody when I we were doing the you know running the jersey up the you know the top of the stadium and stuff, and they got people from the stores out there. And I I was in for at Foot Locker, we were actually at Disney World, and we had all of our store managers from Foot Locker, Lady Foot Locker, Kids Foot Locker, uh Champs, all of our district managers, everybody there, you know, probably four or five hundred people. And somebody asked me that question, and I said, How many of you since I've been in the company have been promoted or had additional responsibility or been elevated since I've been here? About 80% of the people raised their hand. That's what I'm proud of. That's what I want to be remembered for, is that I helped you become, you know, a better person and grow and develop. And I don't have children, and all of you are my children. And that's that's what I really you know makes me proud. It was funny because the same question kind of came up at at Academy, and that's that's the thing that helping people grow. That's that's what I love.

Rich H.: 46:22

And you are damn good at it.

Ken H.: 46:26

I still have work to do.

Rich H.: 46:28

Well, we appreciate you joining us today. We made it through with only a couple of military standoffs. We didn't hit the Army Navy prediction.

Tony W.: 46:38

You know what? The reason at all, you know, all seriousness. Uh you introduced me to Ken, and we ended up actually grabbing lunch a couple months ago and broke bread, and I realized I can sit down and have a civil conversation with the West Point grad. So it's been I've I've actually grown through this whole process with Ken. He's he's he's brought up some new things.

Ken H.: 46:58

Well, I will tell you, I enjoyed getting a chance to meet you. But I also the thing that I think is important, and you asked the question earlier about business and how we do. After the Army Navy football game, and every time a West Pointer sends some something to another West Pointer, at the bottom of it it says beat Navy, and Navy probably says the same thing. But after the game, we shake hands. We are true partners, and that's what's important for people to understand is you can joke and kit, but you you're dependent on other people. Working with them and being successful with them is so important. Good motivation.

Rich H.: 47:38

Well, Ken, thank you very much for joining us. This has been a wonderful journey, a great journey, a lot of takeaways from this, and just very much appreciate you taking the time today.

Ken H.: 47:50

Thank you, and and great to see you again. Hopefully it's helpful to the students and productive. Thank you.