Retail Relates
Welcome to Retail Relates — where commerce gets personal.
Each episode brings you inside the world of global commerce — across retail, consumer services, hospitality, and brand marketing — through powerful human stories and the ever-evolving forces shaping what we buy, why we buy, and how we connect.
From entrepreneurs and icons to industry veterans and rising changemakers, we spotlight those redefining how people lead, create, and connect in a fast-moving world.
Hosted by our roundtable of industry experts, we offer a 360° view of the marketplace through honest conversations, lived experience, and practical insights that resonate.
Let’s get started — this is where the story of modern commerce comes to life.
Retail Relates
Influencing Fashion and Culture — Erin Hawker on Building PR Platforms and Engagement
How do you build PR platforms that move culture? For Erin Hawker, it meant starting with grit, finding the white spaces in fashion, and turning visibility into value.
As the founder of Agentry PR, Erin has shaped campaigns across fashion, lifestyle, and entertainment since 2010. She’s also the creator of New York Men’s Day, a showcase built to spotlight emerging designers and bring new energy to the menswear calendar. Her work combines authenticity, cultural engagement, and a commitment to building opportunities for others.
In this episode, Erin shares her journey from the early days of PR (complete with fax machines and persistence) to building one of fashion’s most talked-about platforms. She explains why engagement must align with identity, how authenticity outlasts hype, and why consistency and values are the cornerstones of influence.
From career lessons to cultural insights, Erin’s story is both practical and inspiring. If you’re in fashion, branding, or simply curious about how platforms shift culture, this is an episode you won’t want to miss.
Erin's Bio
Erin Hawker is a fashion communications leader and entrepreneur at the intersection of style, culture, and media. She is the founder of Agentry PR, a New York–based, full-service agency known for elevating designers and building brand momentum through sharp strategy, integrated storytelling, and influencer/VIP programming. Prior to launching Agentry in 2010, Erin led high-impact initiatives for Donna Karan, Vertu, and Diesel North America, and as a VP at LaForce & Stevens worked across major accounts including Target, Sperry, Reebok, Judith Leiber, and Perry Ellis.
Erin is also the founder of New York Men’s Day, a platform that spotlights emerging designers and opens each season with industry support from major sponsors and partners. A builder of stages as much as stories, she continues to shape how fashion engages audiences—creating authentic moments that connect creativity, community, and commerce.
What does it take to lead a PR firm that builds authentic relationships between designers and brands and the community they serve? For Aaron Hawker, it's about turning influence into infrastructure, creating platforms, not just placements. Today, we unpack the modern fashion communication stack how to find white space and build a stage for emerging talent, why consistency of voice outlasts hype, what it really takes to earn coverage in an affiliate-driven media world, and how to design moments that people actually want to share. I'm Rich Honeybaugh and I'm co-hosting today with Judy Segeni, a recent George Mason University graduate, who brings a fresh student's eye perspective to the conversation. In today's episode, we are joined by Erin Hawker, the owner and founder of Agentry PR.
Rich:A journalism major from the University of Wisconsin-Madison, she made her way to New York the scrappy way Lobby stakeouts at Fairchild and a near start at DNR before choosing a higher paying agency role that set her course In the pre-digital era. She literally faxed releases and called editors from payphones, a grind that forged her bias for action and relationship-driven work. Erin went on to lead high-impact programs for Donna Karan, served as the global head of communications for Virtu and as the head of publicity for Diesel North America. As a VP at LaForge Stevens, she worked on major accounts including Target, sperry, reebok and Perry Ellis, crediting James LaForse as an early mentor who sharpened her writing. In 2010, she launched Agency PR, a full-service fashion, lifestyle and entertainment agency spanning brand direction, media outreach, influencer and VIP program and creative partnerships. Seeing a gap for menswear, erin also launched New York Men's Day, a showcase that has grown with major sponsors and gives emerging designers a platform at the start of each season.
Rich:Recognized for blending brand building with cultural engagement, she continues to shape how fashion intersects with identity, authenticity and commerce. On this episode of Retail Relates, you'll hear the mechanics behind platform building, from spotting opportunities to securing support, and the practical craft of modern PR sharpening your pitch list, matching partners to values and creating experiences that advance both culture and commerce. So, whether you're an emerging professional or leading a brand, this conversation is a field guide to consistency, credibility and momentum. Excited to be back here for another episode of Retail Relates. Judy, how are you today?
Judy:I'm good. How are you?
Rich:I'm doing great, and I'm doing great because I have the opportunity to introduce you and our listeners to Erin Hawker, the owner and founder of Agentry PR.
Erin:Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
Rich:Oh, it is absolutely our pleasure. I'm excited because and Judy will know this, having been a participant on the other end of the podcast in the retail course at George Mason and hearing from the experts and the industry leaders, but we didn't have anybody from a PR perspective in that first season, so very excited to have you in here today. Great, me too. So let's get started. We read your bio. We're going to put it in the show notes. You have a very impressive bio. What I want to do, though, is start with something that gets to know you a little bit, a little bit more personally, a little bit more deeply. So think about the three pivotal moments that have happened and it can be personal, it can be professional that have happened to you, that have brought you to where you are right now.
Erin:Okay, so I would have to say the three pivotal moments. One is sort of the dream to get to New York City. So it was sort of. I grew up in Wisconsin and it was sort of a bright lights, big city dream and you know, I didn't know how I was going to do it and I really wanted to work in the fashion industry. So all it took was, you know, a small move. After graduating journalism school at Madison University, wisconsin-madison, I moved to Chicago as a quick stepping stone and then it was the era of New York City when you couldn't really find an apartment easy. So basically, you know, I had written I don't know 50 letters, you know, pen to paper, 50 letters to different brokers in New York and one of them wrote back to me and took pity on me and he made up my whole resume for me and just kind of fudged it so I could get an apartment in the West Village and I was off and running and my first job offer really was I wanted to be in fashion. So I was always reading the Women's Wear Daily job postings. So it was actually when it was in newspaper form and I, you know, so I would go up to 7 West 34th Street, and sit in their lobby and read the newspaper for free every day and I would find jobs. And then finally one day they were like you can't sit here anymore. So I was like, well, I just want to work at Women's Wear. So lo and behold, I did apply and I got this position as the men's editorial assistant. So I did not last long at that first job because there was another job at a small advertising and PR agency that I had also applied to but offered me the job, which was actually for $7,000 more. So I ended up taking that job and that's how I really parlayed into PR and at that time PR really was not the way PR is today. So you know, we had to fax press releases, we had to look up contacts in bound books called Cision, and you would look up these contacts. They were never up to date. I wasn't allowed to make long distance phone calls, so I would go to the pay phone on the corner in Soho and I would dial 411 to get all the different phone numbers for different editors. So that was, that was a pivotal moment, I would have to say. The second pivotal moment in my career was actually starting agentry PR, which I did in 2010.
Erin:I had worked my way up through the fashion industry, working on the agency side as well as in-house, for many, many years. I was on the event side for a nonprofit called Fashion Group International where we did about 40 events, all related to the fashion industry. I did that for a few years and then I got my big break at Donna Karan as global PR director for DKNY and for Donna, and that was pre and post LVMH, and my job was really to create hype and buzz for the DKNY name and really create a lot of excitement at, you know, at the in-store level, which was a lot of fun. I think you know one of my most proud moments when I was working at Don and Karen was when they shut down Madison Avenue and it becomes a shopping night and all the different stores compete with each other to outdo each other with different events, and the theme for that Madison Avenue bid was New York City 1980s. So I ended up booking Run DMC to perform in the store and there were like lines of thousand people outside to get in. It was really amazing.
Erin:So, and then I got recruited by Nokia, believe it or not, to join the communications team as the global head of communications for the luxury division called Virtu, and Virtu were mobile phones that were $35,000 for solid yellow gold, white gold phones for $18,000, and then stainless steel for $5,400. And that was a pretty amazing experience because we were really my job was to create pull marketing, so I drove the hype for global sales essentially out of New York and London and we weren't really actually actively selling the phones necessarily in the US. Our core customer was really the Middle East, russia and, of course, asia. So my job was to give the phone to really exciting people, so Madonna, gwyneth Paltrow, pharrell Williams and I got to meet all of them, I got to hang out with them and really just drove press coverage through product placement essentially. And then I moved on to Diesel, where I was the head of communications for Diesel North America from 2005 to 2010. And those were the most amazing times. One of my favorite moments ever at Diesel was celebrating our 25-year anniversary.
Erin:We came up with a concept to start in Tokyo and we did 25 hours of parties around the world, so it was 25, and then it counted down to 24, moved from Tokyo to Dubai, dubai to Berlin, berlin to London, all around the world and then ended up mashups. So we had Chaka Khan performing with NARD. We had Hot Chip performing with TI. Mia was performing. It was terrific. There was a lot of crazy. That happened, I think. Mia came out and she was pregnant. Nobody knew that she was pregnant, so that went viral in itself. Ti was going to jail the next day to serve a sentence and I was on my headset saying where's TI? Where's TI? I need him on the red carpet right now and everyone's like he's at McDonald's, at the drive-in getting chicken McNuggets because he wanted to get those before he went to jail. So it was. You know, the fashion industry has got some pretty exciting things that happen and it's a lot of fun, I would say.
Erin:The third pivotal moment for me was launching New York Men's Day. So in 2014, there was sort of a lot of white space in terms of menswear designers, and I don't. It wasn't because I specialized in menswear. It was because a lot of discretionary dollars that large brands wanted to participate in New York Fashion Week were going to women's brands. Nobody wanted to support men's designers because the bang for the buck was with women's brands. So what we decided to do was pair up men's wear designers and showcase them all at the same time over a two-hour period. So we rented a photography studio that had many different studios within that big building and each designer set up within their own spaces. And then we invited, you know, 400 buyers, you know media influencers and everybody kind of floated in between those six studios. So it really it took off.
Erin:Cadillac saw what we were doing and really wanted to be in the menswear space, so they came on board for the next eight seasons and sponsored New York Men's Day. Then we were able to grow that from six designers to 12 designers. We will be having our 24th season this coming September. We are the CFDA partner for Emerging Designer Talent and we kick off New York Fashion Week every single season. And this season is super special because my team that was at Cadillac is now Mercedes-Benz and so now we are moving to the new Mercedes-Benz headquarters in Manhattan and we will be having eight designers. We're doing a special showcase with FIT, which is the Fashion Institute of Technology in New York. We'll have, I think, 18 students each making one look and doing a showcase together. So that should be an exciting time, but it's really a labor of love we don't make any money off of it or you know it's not meant to be that. It's meant to give back to the community.
Rich:Normally my follow-up question is is this what you imagine doing? But you kind of answered that. What I really want to know is if I got the order right. You didn't have a job. You were focused on getting an apartment. You got an apartment and then you looked for a job.
Erin:Yeah, because in New York, especially if you don't have, it's so hard to get an apartment in New York, or was so hard to get in a park. That was the hurdle Number one. I wasn't really too worried, I knew I knew I'd be able to. To do something was just also. You know, when you're young naive, you know being as naive as that, you know it sometimes works in your favor, you don't. You don't have fear, you don't have fear.
Rich:So yeah, I have a feeling that if something happened in this podcast and right now, the words of advice are just take a damn chance, go to where you want to go in the lobby of where you want to work, read the free papers or tap into the free Internet and see your dad as you go.
Erin:And listen, not everybody is built that way. You know, I do, you know and I'm very type A. Things need to be, and especially, I think, after starting Agentry we have currently we have 25 clients. We're a team of 12. And we work with, you know, huge brands, you know Fortune 500 brands like Abercrombie and Fitch and Hollister. We work, you know again, with a lot of emerging designers as well. But so there's a lot of responsibility, there's a lot of being on top of it. You have to be really dedicated, you have to be hardworking, you have to understand culture, you have to understand pop culture, you have to understand trends and movements, and I you know. So, all of that aside, I do think there is something to be said about really trusting your instinct and your gut and taking a chance on following your dreams, because it definitely it can happen.
Judy:That's really great to hear, as a newly graduate, that I should just take chances. What's a challenge or a setback that taught you something lasting?
Erin:I would say for me personally, I think I was born to do my own thing. So when I started agentry I wanted to make sure I had as much experience as possible. I wanted to make sure I had, you know, enough industry experience, enough contacts, and so I think you know, for me working in the corporate space was a necessary evil for me personally, meaning you know I had a lot of ideas about you know, events or what we should do that would really move the needle in terms of, like, brand equity and and and share market share. But of course you have a lot of hurdles to get through with when you work in that sort of in that sort of box, the the. The great news is that you know mostly everybody who hires us is hiring us for not being in a box. They're hiring us to be creative and they want sort of offbeat ideas and they want things to move the needle. So I think, out of learning the ropes and learning the how-tos of how sort of business works and how industry works was absolute necessary.
Erin:I see a lot of younger people who don't have experience who start agencies. You know, for us we've never gone after new business. All business has been referred to us and then I attribute to that to sort of a long career in this business and knowing people. So I will say that relationships are key and I think again like I wouldn't say it was a setback, but I definitely think you have to build upon layer after layer in order to be'm not going to have you name any- but how do you approach that situation when you have this designer and you're looking at the talent and you're saying you've got this, but you've got to lean in on it, otherwise you can't bring them forward?
Erin:Yeah, that's a great question because, listen, a lot of these young people are starting these brands and they're following their passion, they're following their heart, right. So they're just going to design what comes to them and you know, a lot of times you're seeing these amazing creative outfits and like just absolutely terrific stuff. They get a ton of press coverage but guess what? The US retailers aren't buying them. So I always ask the young emerging designers okay, what really do you want out of this Are you looking for? Do you want to be the next Theory? Do you want to be the next Uniqlo? Do you want to be the next Abercrombie or do you want to be this cool, like off-white?
Erin:You know, like, because what I see, the, you know what I see, the biggest struggle is with the actual marketplace in America not necessarily accepting like a little bit more avant-garde fashion. So in Europe, like in Copenhagen, london, Amsterdam, even, you know, even I would say a little bit of Milan, but you know, those really fashion forward cities accept more avant-garde kind of, you know, like a little bit more I wouldn't say wild fashion, but you know and like a little bit more creative fashion. You know, obviously, with working with Abercrombie, fitch, I know exactly what's selling right. So denim is their number one, sell polo shirts, denim. So if designers want to be that name and they want to make money, then they really need to go do their homework. Go into the retail stores, go into Bloomingdale's, go into Saks, go to Nordstrom, find out where that white space is and then design that way.
Erin:A lot of young designers don't want to do that. They want to like, design what they're. You know what they're feeling in their heart. Design off the cuff, show their creativity, but guess what? It doesn't sell necessarily here. So, without having a business manager, a lot of these, you know I have to follow suit in terms of like what the market actually wants you to do.
Rich:And it doesn't mean you have to be copycat, you have to carve out your space within it.
Erin:But Right, we've had several designers recently that are no longer trying to get into the American market. So they get a lot of press coverage. They're totally beloved, but they're going to, they're starting to showcase overseas now, meaning like they're doing Paris market, they're doing Copenhagen Fashion Week, they are trying to get momentum, you know, with buyers on that path instead of necessarily selling to the American market. I mean, I will say the one amazing thing that's changed in the fashion industry since social media has come to be is really there's tribes of people so direct to consumer. If you can do it right and if you can do it correctly and speak to that niche audience, then you have a really good chance of selling.
Erin:But crossing over then to mainstream can sometimes be very hard. So there might be a cap to your business size if you're not able to do some kind of crossover. So I mean, every brand you know, every luxury house in the entire world, has a very simple proposition. They create aspirational clothing that no one can really afford. We all want it. It gets so much press coverage and then they sell perfume, they sell handbags and that's how they make their money. They're not making their money off of, you know, the look number five off the runway. They're making their money on selling a dream.
Rich:Thank you, christian Dior. Exactly Thank you, mr Dior, when you had to hit the phone book and find the numbers to social media. Now we're contending with AI. How is that evolving and how do you feel about it and how are you adapting to it?
Erin:Yeah, it's been interesting. So PR in general has changed immensely since the introduction of the affiliate. So I will say that the affiliate for anyone who doesn't know what affiliate is, so affiliate was sort of invented, I want to say it really took off, probably 2012. Hearst Magazine was sort of one of the first early pioneers on affiliate marketing. So anytime you see a listicle story which means the top 10 denim trends coming for fall, so I'm like reading this article there's wide leg denim, there's skinny jeans, there's capri pants I click on the capri pants. I want to buy those capri pants. Guess what Cookies is tracking me and once you know it tracks me for a month. Once I go back and actually buy those capri pants, hearst gets a percentage of that sale. So brands will pay to be on these affiliate platforms. The brands are actually paying somewhere, you know, between 10 and 30 percent commission on anything that is bought on that website. So that has been an entirely new experience because those are oftentimes the number one generators of money for all of these publications. Now, conde Nast, hearst, bustle Group, every single publication Rolling Stone, new York Times, cnn, underscored they're all on affiliate programs. All of those shopping stories are affiliate-based. So our job is now. Besides, when we would pitch just the fashion director, we would pitch the market editor, we now have to pitch the commerce editors, be included in these stories or these features. So that's changed a lot. And having to get clients to get on the affiliate programs it's easy to get on it, but getting them to wrap their head around that they actually have to pay a commission is oftentimes not as welcome. So that but.
Erin:And then there's all kinds of strategies you can employ using affiliates. So, for instance, when we were launching Abercrombie Fitch's YPB, which stands for your personal best sort of their athleisure brand, we actually would go to. We went to the commerce editor and we said, hey, listen, we're going to offer you 30% commission for the month of March. You're going to make 30% more this month on anything YPB that sells. And they said, ok, great, well, you know we'll accept that. And then we went to the editorial side and we said, hey, your e-commerce team just signed off on a 30% commission. You need to help support and sell this by way of editorial. So there's all kinds of like little strategies you know we're employing constantly.
Erin:And then the other pointed thing that happened was obviously social media. So I was working at Diesel at the time in 2008, when the first social media stars were sitting front row at the runway shows Tommy Tan, it was unheard of, like we were still paying celebrities to sit in our front row. And now you're telling me I have to pay an average Joe Schmo who has like 100,000 followers. I have to pay him $15,000 to sit front row. I mean, and those were fees at the time. Now it's even a crazier business.
Erin:But social media, you know the rise of the influencer kind of knocked a lot of the editors out of their trees. You know meaning their kingdoms. So the whole truth about the Devil Wears Prada and those glory days of fashion were all true. They weren't the nicest of the industries. There was a lot of truth to everything you heard and read about it. But then, once the social media stars started knocking people down a bit, fashion got a little bit nicer. So that's been interesting because there's just now Substack is coming to be. Everybody's on Substack. Now we're pitching Substack editors. So not only is our job more complicated because there's more channels, it's been pretty wild because now you're having to track down every single person's Substack and then pitching those people directly as well.
Erin:It's definitely been a different change. I think what's been happening in general is that most of the publishing houses have gotten more vertical. So it used to be when you would go to Conde Nast it was at Four Times Square. It was like the most amazing building, every single floor. One was Vogue, one was Architectural Digest, one was Conde Nast Traveler, one was GQ. They have this beautiful, you know Frank Gehry building cafeteria. You know it was fascinating. You go into the cafeteria and they all had their like lunch tickets and they were like you can get whatever you want. We'd be like this is great. And now when you go to Condé Nast at One World Trade, they're all on one floor. So it's a vertical. It's turned completely vertical and you have sort of one fashion director overseeing multiple publications at this point. So it's just, it's definitely shrinking.
Erin:It's definitely a bit of a different hustle and a lot of the publications don't want to not to diminish this, but instead of having to pay full salaries and benefits etc. They now freelance a lot of this, a lot of the articles you know, to stringers. So on top of trying to maintain who's at which publication full time, you have to constantly pitching. Our pitch list is 700 people now. You just never know if Isabella in Michigan, who freelances for Condé Nass, traveler, and Robert Port and Forbes, if she's writing a story on rimless eyewear or not. So you have to include all of these different people on these pitch lists all of the time. So it just it's made our job from.
Erin:I mean, I think the younger people who are on my team don't understand what I see, necessarily, and how much it's changed, and they're adapting very well because they don't know it any other way. I think with AI, it's going to get really interesting in terms of writing. I know a lot of writers that I work with are very nervous in general about their jobs. Writers that I work with are very nervous in general about their jobs. I think there's always going to be, you know, people who are mega talents, who are writing for the New Yorker, who are writing for the Wall Street Journal, who are writing for the New York Times. They're not going anywhere. You know that can't really be replaced. What I do see as being replaced is sort of these shopping stories, trend-driven shopping stories, because a lot of these people are cranking out five of these shopping stories in a day and it's like a cog on a wheel and it's not fulfilling for them. It's not necessarily sustainable, if that makes sense for one person long term.
Rich:You mentioned Substack. I have to dig into it because it's something. It's yet another platform and every time that there's a new, it seems like there's five or six or seven new platforms that everybody's raving about, and then one seems to have some staying power and right now it feels like Substack is having that version of blogging.
Erin:But the amazing thing is, anybody can create one and you can charge money so I can get an upgraded subscription base. You know, let's say, let's say so. For instance, I follow Amy O'Dell. Amy O'Dell was a famous editor from the New York Magazine time. She has this really awesome cutting edge sub stack. It's it talks about the backdoor fashion. You know, every week she updates it. You get a little teaser and then I can pay I don't know thirty nine dollars for a year subscription to her for her sub stack. So you're getting these amazing reporters who do these side hustles.
Erin:So you know anyone anyone again who's not not under contract has these, you know, and it's in every category. It could be cooking, it could be wine, it could be about dogs, it can be about fashion. So Substack is sort of the way to go, because it empowers one person to be able to generate income for themselves, and so it's how much you can hustle and how many followers you get. I think it's sort of the way of the future. It was funny when Terry Moran left ABC. He immediately started a sub stack and he's got like a million people already so following him. So it's just, I think sub stack is going to be sort of the new era for alternate news and you don't have an editor. Yeah, and you know, it's like I have a sub stack, I don't have an editor. I can basically talk whatever I want and no one's going to say, no, you need to edit this. You're like your own king.
Rich:No, I've been watching it and it's fascinating. I'm actually looking at it from a nonprofit perspective, because it can also be a source of revenue from a nonprofit perspective. And when you talk about AI, I don't want to paraphrase your words, but you kind of intimate to this that those that are really skilled and that have talent are still going to be there. It takes out some of the mundane and those that were creating the mundane are going to have to find something else.
Erin:Yeah, and, frankly, that could be where Substack steps into for a lot of these people Because, again, if you've built up depending on how well you hustle, like if you have been successful building up your social media profile, I think it's a lot the same of building up your Substack profile. So you know, there is a chance to make real money Rich. I'll actually send well, I'll send you an article after we get through with this which kind of sums up Substack in a nutshell. That just came out. It's pretty fascinating.
Judy:I downloaded Substack to follow Nora Smith on there and it was really cool what she wrote. But then the paywall got me in.
Erin:That's the funny thing. It hooks you in because you know paywall got me. And that's the funny thing. It hooks you in because you know you get these tidbits and then you then all of a sudden you've got, you know, a paywall just pulling you back. You want more.
Judy:Exactly yeah, and that was when she was announcing her pregnancy and I was like, wait, I need to see what. What else did he say about this? Is there a brand, past or present, that personally inspired you as a gold standard for what a brand should be, and why does it stand out?
Erin:Yeah, I mean I, you know personally, there's a lot of brands doing a lot of good stuff and I have to say Abercrombie Fitch is pretty amazing on how they've turned the brand around. I mean, fran Horowitz took the reins in 2017. And she recruited many, many people from New York City, moved them to Columbus, ohio. They are pretty cutting edge in terms of you know, they were a first. You know like first fast fashion to F1. You're going to see some big announcements for sports partnerships coming out later this fall To run an $8 billion company like that and do a lot of good, I mean, and such a turnaround story as well, the past era of how it was run and I won't say who, by whom.
Erin:It's the gift that keeps giving every day in the headlines when you're reading stories. So I will say yeah, I will say Abercrombie Fitch is pretty amazing. And then that team kind of took over Hollister and we've been slowly working on reshaping that brand and it's been amazing From when we started working on it about two and a half years ago. The amount of press coverage that we now derive is night and day from when we first started working on it.
Judy:Those are two of my favorite stores, honestly. I love Abercrombie, fitch and St, and I love Hollister's. I just love their PJs.
Erin:They're so comfy, oh good, everyone loves the PJs, everyone loves the sweatshirts. Even I got sucked into a University of Wisconsin at Hollister sweatshirt.
Rich:You've talked about the experience and I don't want one question to kind of queue up the other one, but I'm going to try. But I'm going to try. What's a misconception?
Erin:that either those thinking about PR or those that are aware of PR but not deeply, would have about PR. It is not all fun. I think that people, especially a lot of young people looking to get in, they're like but fashion shows are so fun and the events are so fun and once you kind of get into it you have to realize like there's a lot of pressure to to pull. To pull off these, these, these events successfully takes a lot of planning, a lot of manpower and a lot of long hours. I mean for Fashion Week, when we were used to, you know, when I was working on Donna Karan or when I was working at Diesel, we would probably be working for one month straight, I would say 60 hour weeks. You know, the night, the week of the actual runway show, we would be there to 2 am every night. And it's changed a lot. Now it's not as demanding or crazy no-transcript spend. So you're going to look at your January through June spend in these publications. You're going to book the media, you're going to negotiate the rates, you're going to do some TikTok, some content around that and once you spend the money, once you book the thing, your job is sort of done. With PR there's always a new person to meet, because this is such a rolling ball with all these different channels, with Substack, with social media, with even celebrities and with product placement and feature stories. Because of the way of the industry now, literally there's always. There's 10 people every day you might meet that are totally new to the game, so you're always having to be on your toes. I mean, we update our media lists probably every single week. We're editing them, we're changing them up, we're adding people, we're taking people off. It's definitely a very fluid industry and it's not one for idle.
Erin:I will say, too, that relationships are everything. For instance, like our team, we have senior people who work for us and then there's some junior people. You know, when the junior people are inviting editors to, you know, a sit down dinner for 30 people and they can't get responses. Guess who's going to have to do the texting at the end of the day? It's me, so you know, and they can't get responses. Guess who's going to have to do the texting at the end of the day? It's me, so you know, and I can get an answer in five minutes. But if I didn't have those relationships, it's sort of like the younger people, you're not getting any response. In PR there's a lot of no and it's a lot of rejection as well. But I will say relationships are everything in this business. Like as many people, as many favors as you can call in, you definitely need to tap into those.
Rich:Well, and that was one of the things that I learned from you when we worked together many years ago is, I think my perception of PR at the time was the relationships and the expertise, and we hire an agency, which we did, and you have the context and I have the product, and there it goes, and what I learned and you've talked about it today is that it was as much about the quality of the relationship and the connection that you can make, but it's also about the experience that you would help us craft, and I want to dig into that a little bit, because it's something that retailers and brands right now are really discovering about Gen Z is that authenticity and that connection and that experience often matters more than what your brand reputation is.
Rich:When you were working with us, it wasn't just I'm going to introduce you to Stan, it was when you meet him. These are the things that he likes and this is what he's going to be interested in, and this is the kind of event that we want to set up and and it was authentic and it was connective and it was wonderful when it worked. So talk about where you see brands getting that right and wrong today.
Erin:I truly believe everything comes full circle. So every 20 years you're going to see like it was so funny that in the show we part of our office. We're based in Chelsea in New York City. On 8th and 26th Half of our office is a showroom space and somebody was shooting, photographing looks to send out to an editor and I was like geez, I think I wore that 20 years ago, that exact same outfit. I was like this is crazy. So I mean, as fashion trends follow this cycle, so do a lot of the experiences right.
Erin:So there was a wave of in-store events that you know, people, you know we all wanted to go to these in-store events and they were. Every brand was upping the other brand for experiences in the store and then it kind of died out. Everyone got tired of it and the new generation came today and they want in-store experiences. So and it's pretty incredible got tired of it and the new generation came today and they want in-store experiences. So, and it's pretty incredible and you know, the other thing is, too is now we're seeing a lot of younger generation people don't drink. So we did Saucony is one of our clients and we did sort of a meetup, like it was. They're really into community building, so they take over these coffee shops. We had a sort of a charm bar set up in the coffee shop. Everybody loves these charm bars. They go and they pick out charms, they're going to create things. And then we had espresso martinis and we only had one bartender and I was like, listen, we just, you know, pre-batch as many as possible, set them out on the bar. No one drank any. So having a non-alcoholic alternate now I think is pretty important. So I guess the point of the story is everything that we did 20 years ago Galentine's Day event, where we had like different little vignettes set up and like it was interactive. You could go and do social media posts from this side, you could go to the candy table and build these, build candy bags, you could go to a charm bar, and that kind of interactive was like highly successful. I think I don't know there's like at least 90 posts from that event in one night. It was kind of crazy.
Erin:But yeah, I think not doing an experience is completely the wrong way at this point now for anybody. I do think too, like if you're a marketer, don't just jump on the train because everybody else is doing it. So I've been watching everyone else try to tie into F1. And I'm like this is so wrong for you, like this, I mean it was. There's a brand that I was working with sort of on some one-off projects and the marketing director was like she was very in on the F1 and I'm like, listen, you're selling $40 jeans. This is not a luxury, you know. This is. It doesn't really make sense for you guys to be there. So I do think just because you see things on TikTok doesn't not necessarily mean it's right for your brand. So think about that as well.
Judy:I did see the F1 merch at Hollister. I have to say I do love that one, though. What is a belief sorry, go ahead. I was gonna say or approach that has shaped how you take on projects today.
Erin:Listen, we're not just taking things on for money. So we're taking things on if we really feel like we can help the brand. Because, you know, I came I worked on the agency side prior to starting my own agency at another agency. It was very much a cog in the wheel and it literally like I knew we couldn't do anything with this brand and nobody. Much a cog in the wheel and it literally like I knew we couldn't do anything with this brand and nobody was going to pull the brand, no one was going to care about the brand, no one was going to shoot the brand and I just felt really bad about taking these people's money because maybe PR wasn't the right approach for them.
Erin:Maybe investing money in D2C and investing money into social that way was probably the smarter and more prudent way to you know, for that brand to actually succeed. So we always take a very strong look at the brand. If we feel like we can help them, then we'll work with them. If there's no chance that we think that the editors are going to pull it, then I don't want to spin wheels, I don't want to waste their money and my team also feels bad when they don't get responses or they don't get editorial coverage. So it's a lose, lose, lose altogether.
Rich:So you've given great advice that we're going to pull from this. But before I pivot to the rapid fire, is there a quality that you think is underrated when you are looking to hire somebody or work with someone today?
Erin:Yeah, I think I mean honestly you have to. You know you don't think PR is a writing job, but it is. It is a communications job. It is 80% writing. I have probably, on average, 500 emails a day, but all we're doing is we're pitching. We pitch probably every single one of our brands two to three times a week. We're constantly creating communications materials, right.
Erin:So being a strong writer is super, super important and I really have to say being creative, because, honestly, the only way that I see us moving the needle a lot of times, unless you have a lot of money to spend, like the brands that can spend a gazillion dollars, of course you know it's much more easy, but a lot of brands that don't have that marketing spend, they rely on us to be creative. And creative like just means you know it just means how are you going to sell? You know the way I look at it always is I. At the end of the day, the editors are my consumers. So what are the editors going to think is cool?
Erin:And once I kind of get a grasp on that, like in terms of, like planning dinners or planning experiences, if it sounds like fun, if we think that it hasn't been done by another brand, then we're pretty much a go and we can sell it into the client, but it's. I mean, it's really, really important not to do cookie cutter kind of stuff, but again, like if you're in pharmacy, like if you're in pharma or if you're in, maybe, automotive, it might be more cookie cutter and there's a way things are done. But in these more creative fields I would say, like especially in fashion, especially, you know, in like beauty, for instance, you, the more creative you can be, the better.
Rich:So transition that to somebody just graduating from college or someone just starting off in their career. How do they stand out today?
Erin:Yeah, don't come in empty handed. Always bring your resume. So you know, I mean honestly, like if I was going in, I had my own portfolio when I started out and I didn't even have any experience, I didn't even understand how to write pitches, but I definitely had. You know. I came around with a portfolio of you know brands I loved and admired, and but I think for anyone starting out, you should try sampling some pitches. Don't ever come empty handed. You should come prepared with a list of publications that you read, and here are my favorite writers. So I mean, you would impress anybody if you were able to. You know, I mean just assuming that somebody has your resume and they're going to print. It doesn't work that way. You should always send a thank you now too.
Rich:All right, that is a perfect answer and it actually aligns with the entire theme of the podcast. So now I'm going to roll into a rapid fire round. Three questions. Don't think throw out the answer. Favorite comfort food Spaghetti, just spaghetti.
Erin:Spaghetti and pizza.
Rich:Spaghetti and pizza. Either one I like that.
Erin:Either one Every day.
Rich:Okay, perfect. All right, Judy, you're up.
Judy:What's a superpower that you wish you had?
Erin:Oh, I'd like to be a fly on the wall. I wish I could be invisible and listen in on all these crazy conversations.
Rich:Are you sure you'd want to?
Erin:Yeah, no, that's exactly true.
Rich:All right. So this one might seem like a fairly kind of basic question, but I am really curious what's your walk on song? What's your hype song?
Erin:I would say the Go-Go's Vacation.
Rich:I like that.
Erin:Yeah, I think, I think it's definitely the Go-Go's.
Rich:I could see that I can. I don't know that I ever would have guessed that, but that's perfect, all right, well, perfect. Hey, we really appreciate the time. This has been fantastic. We had a chance to work together many years ago and I've learned a lot just in this conversation. I know that our audience will and we need to find another excuse to have you come back, but really appreciate it. Thank you very much.
Erin:Yes and Rich. Also, if anyone ever wants to email and wants advice or anything, they can always feel free to share my email address as well.
Rich:Absolutely love that and I think that's one of the cool things about what we're doing and meeting the Aaron Hawkers of the world, because you mean that.
Erin:Yeah, I do mean it. I do mean it. I might not always have the most time in the world, but I definitely like helping people.
Rich:All right. Well, thank you very much. This has been a fantastic episode of Retail Relates, or at least I think so. Appreciate Aaron Hawker for joining us. Judy, as always, great to see you.
Erin:Thank you so much, Thank you Judy, Thank you Rich.
