Retail Relates
'Retail Relates' is not just a podcast; it's a journey into the heart of retail and commerce. Our episodes traverse the path from traditional marketplaces to digital platforms, highlighting the successes, trials, and invaluable lessons learned along the way. We're conversing with those shaping the industry—from the front lines to behind the scenes, the creative minds to the global strategists - offering a diverse 360-degree perspective. We're revealing the relationships and personal narratives that make retail engaging and accessible. 'Retail Relates' is an invitation to explore the world's interconnectedness through the lens of retail, encouraging listeners to discover the personal journeys and stories of those who drive innovation and unite us across cultures and continents.
Retail Relates
Mastering Customer Strategy and Marketing Leadership: A Conversation with Sheryl Adkins-Green
Discover how Sheryl Adkins-Green, a seasoned business executive, turned her diverse career experiences into a leadership and brand strategy masterclass. From her early retail days to her transformative roles at Kraft Foods, Citigroup, and eventually, at Mary Kay, Sheryl shares pivotal career moments and the unique challenges she faced. This episode promises valuable insights into maintaining healthy professional relationships, lessons from various industries, and leveraging one's unique talents and instincts.
Sheryl offers an inside look into the global brand strategy and marketing efforts at Mary Kay, discussing the challenges of maintaining brand consistency while empowering women globally. Drawing inspiration from successful retailers like Anthropologie and Disney, she emphasizes culture's role over strategy and personalization's power in creating memorable customer experiences. Young professionals will find Sheryl's advice on owning one's uniqueness and honing listening skills both practical and inspiring, as she underscores the importance of relationship-building in business success. Join us for a conversation that blends personal anecdotes with professional wisdom, equipping you with strategies to thrive in your career.
About Sheryl:
Recently retired from Mary Kay Inc., Sheryl Adkins-Green served as Chief Experience Officer and Chief Marketing Officer, where she played a pivotal role in shaping the company’s global strategy and supporting the success of millions of women entrepreneurs. Her leadership was instrumental in delivering a 360-degree integrated customer experience, elevating brand engagement, and driving business growth. With a career spanning over three decades, Sheryl has consistently demonstrated a passion for innovation, leadership development, and strategic transformation.
Sheryl’s journey in business began with a Bachelor of Science in Fashion Retailing from the University of Wisconsin, followed by an MBA from Harvard Business School. She quickly ascended into executive leadership, holding key roles at some of the world’s most recognized corporations, including Kraft Foods, Citigroup, Cadbury-Schweppes, and Alberto-Culver. Throughout her career, she built sales, marketing, and strategy development expertise, helping organizations expand their market presence and strengthen consumer connections.
Her impact in the industry has been widely recognized, earning her numerous accolades. She was named a Forbes Top 50 CMO Influencer and received Brand Innovators’ 2021 Top 100 Women in Marketing Award. In 2020, she was honored with the CMO Leadership Award, and in 2019, BLACK ENTERPRISE included her in its Most Powerful Women in Corporate America List.
Beyond her corporate career, Sheryl has remained deeply committed to leadership development and community service. She served on the Board of Trustees at Texas Christian University from 2016 to 2024 and currently holds the position of Vice President on the Dallas Museum of Art Board of Trustees. She is also an active member of the International Women’s Forum and The Executive Leadership Council, organizations dedicated to advancing diversity and leadership excellence. Additionally, she is featured in Valorie Burton’s best-selling book, Successful Women Think Differently.
A lifelong advocate for creativity and entrepreneurship, Sheryl continues to inspire through her passion for art, fashion, beauty, and business. She actively shares insights on leadership, brand strategy, and empowerment, helping individuals and organizations navigate change and succeed. Her legacy of strategic excellence and transformative leadership ensures that her influence will continue to shape industries and inspire future generations of business leaders.
It is our pleasure today to welcome Sheryl Atkins-Green to Retail Relates. Sheryl is a distinguished business executive with over three decades of transformative leadership experience across the globe. She is known for her consistent track record of delivering results, developing leaders, driving top-line and bottom-line growth, innovating market approaches and leading organizations through significant change. Sheryl earned her Bachelor of Science degree in fashion retailing at the University of Wisconsin and later an MBA from Harvard Business School. Her career began in leadership roles at major corporations, where she built expertise in sales, marketing and strategic development in a variety of segments. Sheryl has held executive positions at globally recognized companies, including Kraft Foods, Citigroup, Cadbury- Schweppes and Alberto Culver. In each role, she strengthened her ability to drive business growth, enhance brand presence and develop high-impact strategy. That brought her to Mary Kay, first as chief marketing officer and eventually chief experience officer at one of the world's leading direct-selling beauty brands. In this role, she supported the success of millions of women entrepreneurs by leading the global strategy that delivered a 360 degree integrated customer experience. Her leadership and shaping customer engagement and business innovation played a critical role in Mary Kay's success.
Rich:Throughout her distinguished career, Sheryl has received numerous accolades, recognizing her influence in business and marketing. Just a few of those include Forbes Top 50 CMO Influencer, brand Innovators, top 100 Women in Marketing Award, a CMO Leadership Award and Black Enterprise's Most Powerful Women in Corporate America list in 2019. She is very active in her community, having served or continuing to serve in a variety of positions, including Board of trustees for TCU, texas Christian University, Vice President of the Dallas Museum of Art Board of trustees, as a member of the International Women's Forum and as a member of the Executive Leadership Forum. Additionally, she was featured in Valerie Burton's bestselling book Successful Women Think Differently. Beyond business, cheryl is passionate about art, fashion, beauty and entrepreneurship. She actively shares her insights on leadership and innovation across platforms, inspiring others to achieve success in their own careers. It is an absolute pleasure to have her on the program today.
Paula:Sheryl Atkins-Green, thank you so much for joining us in this episode of Retail Relates. We are just absolutely honored to have you, especially because you have recently announced your retirement from a little company known as Mary Kay. If you're a Texan, like me, you know Mary Kay very well and if you are a makeup aficionado, you absolutely know Mary Kay or have spoken to a Mary Kay representative. So, cheryl, thank you for coming on to the episode. I'll kick us off and have the first question, cheryl, for you, if you're ready, I am ready, excited to be with you. So, Sheryl, you've had a great career. Tell us a little bit about the three pivotal moments in either your personal life or your career that have led you to this moment, to where you are today.
Sheryl:Sure, my career actually began in retailing. My first jobs in high school were retail, so this is a full circle moment, so to speak. Starting in retail. I'll say the first pivotal moment was the decision, as in my senior year I had studied fashion retailing at the University of Wisconsin and, as I was approaching graduation, had all the retail job offers, started to think a little bit more long-term, not about what I wanted to do right then, but where was that going to take me? And as I thought about a career path in retailing, I questioned is there anything else I might enjoy as much, if not more? And I thought about why I loved retailing. I love the creative aspects, I love the consumer psychology aspects and I love the business results. And as I thought about what I loved about retailing and fashion, I started to look at other opportunities, and that led me to consider both work at an ad agency as well as product and brand management, and that led to a decision to pursue my MBA. And so I went on to go to Harvard Business School and go into a career in consumer packaged goods. So that was pivotal.
Sheryl:Next pivotal moment was when, at Kraft Foods, I was offered a cross-functional opportunity to move out of marketing and actually into operations and technology as a director of productivity and synergy A bit of a career risk, but I was excited to have an opportunity to really stand out from my marketing counterparts and also learn more about the business so that one day, in a broader leadership role, I could be most effective. And then the third decision that I'll highlight was to actually move out of CPG into financial services with Citigroup. Most people did not see me as a banker. I didn't see me as a banker, but what I did see myself potentially was as a global business leader, and Citigroup offered that opportunity to work not only in services versus products, but still consumer oriented and also have broader exposure financially to the balance sheet, p&l, broader leadership, responsibility and global exposure.
Paula:First I want to point out you just glossed over the fact that you went to Harvard, so I caught that. Very impressive. And also I love your varied background, because right now people with significant careers have that variety and background. It's only an asset to companies because you have that ability to look at different businesses and understand the business in a way that no one can and bring new ideas to your business and your industry in a way that no one can. Had they not had that experience in other industries. Thank you for sharing that. I want to talk about, if you will, about being a woman through all of this, because you were in CPG companies, financial companies, even at Harvard. I'd love to hear your perspective on how you actually were able to climb that ladder and keep those relationships with your male counterparts healthy, Plus the fact that a lot of women drop out of the workforce because they have kids and decide to pursue a different path.
Sheryl:I can first and foremost, share that, not only being a woman in some of those environments and context, but also being a woman of color and sometimes not ever being 100% sure, never will. Where will I receive a reaction for one aspect of what makes me unique or another aspect? And what I learned along the way is to not so much worry about that Certainly I'm conscious and conscientious but, more importantly, not to let that turn into any kind of self-doubt and to really focus on what was going to make me successful and it's the same thing that was going to make anyone else in the room successful and that was about credibility. It was about being able to understand the business need and how I was going to contribute in an impactful way. So, again, I will never know how people would view me and what their assumptions were, but the element that I could control and impact again was my credibility and bring my voice to my insights and also to leverage that as a woman of color, I did bring valuable and unique insights to business opportunities as well as issues.
Gautham:Sheryl, let me ask you a follow-up question on insights. I haven't met a person who has worked in such a diverse set of industries, from manufacturing, food, cosmetics, banking. What transcends what's common in these industries? What skills and technical expertise translates across these domain areas?
Sheryl:Yeah, I think one of the success factors that I learned and aspired to hone as a leader was, the first and foremost, making sure that there was clarity around the mission, around the vision, and that the organization, those that I was leading, whether it was a smaller group or a larger team that there was understanding and engagement and alignment to that mission. In support of that. Culture is everything in my opinion. I think culture can trump strategy. I've worked in a variety of organizations again a city group, large, very large, global operation, to a family-owned private business such as Mary Kay Incorporated, and throughout that, whether it was the corporate culture and how that was being reinforced and supported, or the culture that I was able to create and influence within my own division, my own business unit, et cetera. Because at the end of the day, the achievement of business goals and the company's mission comes down to people and their commitment and their willingness and motivation to come and be their best and bring their best.
Paula:Rich, I wish this platform had like emojis, because I'm always wanting I feel like this is a Zoom call and I'm always wanting to look for like the clapping emoji, and it doesn't have it. Can we work on that, rich?
Rich:We can actually we can put a round of applause in. So you started in retail, you ended up going through marketing, before I get to you rejoining retail. What was it specifically about marketing, and how would you define what a marketer is today?
Sheryl:You know, as I think about my interest in marketing and how that evolved from retailing, from my own experience in retail sales and selling on commission, which I enjoyed I got a lot of gratification from that helping others be successful. And as I thought about my personal experience and effectiveness, I thought if I had even more influence and impact over what I was selling and how it was being sold, I could be personally more successful but, more importantly, help my customers be more successful. So it was that desire to move into roles that had greater influence and impact around strategy, again, what was being sold, how it was being sold, those decision points which I really enjoyed and learned so much in terms of, you know, my CPG experience and likewise in financial services.
Rich:So again, for me it was through the shopper experience that I really wanted to impact, the totality of the total shopper experience and all elements of those touch points and getting beaten out by CMO for the year by the very talented Ms Atkins Green. But when you went to Mary Kay, what drew you to that experience and what fueled you through that?
Sheryl:I was attracted, first and foremost, to the company's mission and the values of Mary Kay Ash herself and her powerful story of creating a business for women and creating a business that was really grounded in some key values, such as the golden rule, making people feel important, integrity, and, as someone who always felt that, not only do I want to have impact professionally, I also wanted to have impact more broadly in the community, and Mary Kay represented a unique opportunity to bring together my professional experience and goals, as well as my personal passion for helping others be successful my personal passion for helping others be successful and I want to dive into and I know Gotham will as well a little bit more into that direct-to-consumer model.
Rich:I will ask how many sales leaders were created, and I'm not sure of the exact terminology that's used, but is there a moment that you can remember where there was an event or an accomplishment and it just kind of gave you goosebumps with the impact that you were able to have?
Sheryl:I want to answer that by saying that I had many of those moments and those came in the form of treasured opportunities when I was able to interact with our independent sales force. The Mary Kay business operates in more than 35 countries around the world. I had a chance to travel, I think, to almost 20 of those. You know the language barrier was not a barrier, because I felt there were some heart-to-heart connections and through a little sign language and also just the emotion when I engaged and spoke with others and shared my commitment to their success and they expressed how grateful they are, and have been, to have an opportunity to balance their life's priorities in terms of faith and family and career. So, you know, I feel like if we had an extra hour, there were so many stories I could share. But really, how the Mary Kay opportunity changed lives and, most importantly, how so many women discovered their potential. And it happened because someone else saw something in them before they saw it in themselves, and I'm grateful that I had that opportunity to be a part of that.
Rich:Yes, living in Dallas, as international as Mary Kay is, living in Dallas and getting to see it firsthand through your eyes. To the corporate side, the number, the countless number of women that were empowered by it you mentioned 35 different countries. As a marketer with a brand, mission and purpose is defined as Mary Kay's. Did you find it challenging? Or maybe I'll ask it this way what challenges did you find in expanding into other countries?
Sheryl:I'll say that many elements of the Mary Kay culture resonate and are relevant globally. At the same time, every country is different culturally and, as the person responsible for the global brand strategy, I needed to first of all make sure that there was an understanding of the global strategy and how the mission and vision for Mary Kay would come into play in each market and, importantly, the value of a consistent brand image around the world, because it's through consistency that trust is built and established. Having said that, I also respected the importance of making sure that how the brand was communicated and conveyed resonated at that local level, which required collaboration. I think about my role in the context of an orchestra conductor, where you have many talented musicians, each of which plays an important role in that symphony, and, as the conductor, you're looking to make sure that each musician and each piece of the music comes together harmoniously. So it's not about one size fitting all, but to make sure that the pieces, so to speak, and the individual voices come together in a harmony.
Rich:So, from a retail organization and being the head of marketing and really managing the global brand, you had a unique challenge in having as many independent operators as you did, and around the globe. How were you able to maintain consistency? How challenging was it? Because I would imagine it's challenging when you're talking about one country or when you're talking about physical environments, you're talking about independent sales reps across the world. How were you able to manage that?
Sheryl:Well, let me start with you.
Sheryl:You referred to Mary Kay as a retail organization.
Sheryl:I will say that Mary Kay would not describe themselves as retail in terms of the physical experience, but when we do think about a selling situation, a sharing situation, yes, every independent beauty consultant provides that shopping sharing experience with her individual customers.
Sheryl:And I think some of the things that inspired each independent beauty consultant and each Mary Kay market to be aligned comes back to those fundamental values around golden rule, service, treating everyone the way you would want to be treated, making sure that everyone feels important, and that can look and feel different by individual. And you know, if you think about today, what do consumers want in a shopping experience? They want personalization, and that's something that Mary Kay Ash understood from the beginning in 1963. So, as we think about, as I think about shopping experiences and personalization, that really is at the heart of the Mary Kay business model. So, as the global brand strategy leader, my team and I supported that by making sure that each independent beauty consultant had a consistent array of support tools so that they could be successful within their individual business but they could also customize how they interacted and engaged and delivered personalized service to their customers.
Gautham:So let me just ask a couple of questions on the experience factor. Right, you talked about personalization as being critical to experience. What else? Today we live in an experience economy. Companies differentiate each other based on experience. What is the secret to a unique experience, that consistent unique experience, in your opinion, outside of personalization?
Sheryl:Yeah, I think the secret is be attentive and empathetic to what the customer is truly buying, and what they're buying is not necessarily what is in the transaction. So as an example, I'll go back to my experience in Kraft Foods and something like a stovetop stuffing. The mom, the head of the household at the time, was not just buying a side dish for dinner. She was buying a pleasant meal experience. She was hoping and working toward a nice family conversation where people felt, at the end of a day of work and homework and practice whatever, that this moment, even if it was just 20 minutes, was going to feel special. And if you think about stovetop stuffing, it was bringing actually a side dish from a special meal occasion and bringing it into the everyday and making it feel more elevated than the mashed potatoes or rice or whatever. So I use that as an example of the importance of making sure it's investing the time to understand what is someone buying.
Sheryl:They're not necessarily buying a new sweater or a pair of earrings. They're maybe buying confidence. They're buying necessarily buying a new sweater or a pair of earrings. They're maybe buying confidence. They're buying a gift. They're buying the joy that they made their sister or their best friend feel important because they selected the perfect gift. And I think you know, particularly in this day and age where so much is automated and you know AI has a lot of benefits but at the same time it doesn't some of the technology can't really bring that empathetic understanding of what people, what the goal is of the purchase, not the purchase, but what's the goal of the purchase.
Gautham:But what's the goal of the purchase? I'm smiling because you kind of nicely teed up the second part of the question, which was the role of technology in enabling those personalized movements of experience. Where do you see it? And how, for Medicaid, where you have all these different service providers, how do you use technology to help, perhaps, deliver a consistent level of quality?
Sheryl:help perhaps deliver a consistent level of quality. In my opinion, I value technology most for efficiency and less so for effectiveness, and by that I mean technology can certainly help a lot go faster. It can enable marketers and their teams to digest so much more data quickly, in a time frame to make it relevant. My effectiveness, though, is so what do you do with the data? And again, I'll use a simple example, and I'll go back to when I would buy my three-year-old nieces I have twin nieces and order clothes for them.
Sheryl:I will say, for at least another five years, they kept somebody, kept serving up clothes for three-year-olds, never anticipating that my nieces were getting older. So, again, the technology was there. It was not helpful to me because it did not factor in why I was buying a three-year-old address and so forth. And again, a simplistic example. So I think you know, going forward, it's not about if technology and AI can be helpful. It's more about how is it used and to make sure that it does not ever supersede the human elements that help us understand those whys and those layers of why.
Rich:So we live, at least in this country, in a very consumer-driven economy and we have a generation that I won't say is shunning consumerism, but they're making different choices. How do you think consumerism is changing overall and how do you think the consumer will evolve over the next decade?
Sheryl:As I think about your question, what strikes me is that literally for centuries, people have been buying or bartering or trading for goods, goods that they need, goods that make a positive difference in their lives. In this day and age and again it varies around the world consumer still want to exchange merchandise, they want to exchange ideas, they want to take something and make it their own and enhance the value. And how do we help them achieve that goal? It's not always going to be in selling them more merchandise, selling them new merchandise, but rather taking what we know as a company. How do we take our goods, our services, our technology and help people gain more satisfaction? And if we come at it from that standpoint, that's how we earn the loyalty and the endorsement of a consumer base.
Rich:Do you think there's a retailer or a service provider that is doing it well today?
Sheryl:I'll tell you as you ask that question. One of the retailers that comes to mind is Anthropologie, and what strikes me about Anthropologie is how they connected with the consumers I'll say from a lifestyle perspective and brought together the balance of trend merchandise, the balance of trend merchandise lifestyle, in terms of whether it might be home goods, some gifting, etc. They stand out to me in terms of their retail experience, in terms of how they merchandise, even if you're not necessarily looking for or needing a new outfit. I think they made the shopping experience very inviting and it's very warm, and I think that's one of the reasons why they've in my opinion, they've been successful.
Rich:Moving away from the sea of sameness that everybody has tended to replicate.
Sheryl:Yes.
Rich:So one of the things we've also talked about is, in this malaise of generalized retail, that those sellers, those on the front line, whether they're selling, stocking, taking care of the customer at the beginning, is that they aren't often seen as a not often seen as a profession.
Sheryl:yet during the pandemic, obviously we placed a very high value on them Within Mary Kay is that it really is a model founded on relationships that the independent beauty consultant truly has relationships with her customer base and those customers feel known and they feel cared about because they are, and certainly through the pandemic that was particularly important.
Sheryl:There were so many important stories of how the independent sales force reached out to their customers to just check in on them and at a point in time where so many were feeling isolated, those connections were so important and so valued. I think, again, not to throw shade on technology, I do think technology often steers people away from those relationship building opportunities. If you think about you know how so many companies steer you, first and foremost, please go to you know you call, oh, go to our website, leave a message, try this, download the app. And they're steering people away from interaction. Yet it's through the interaction that you gain those insights and you get that opportunity to leverage those magic moments, so to speak, when you can really make a difference, make a memorable difference in a customer's experience. So I think in this day and age, I think technology again, when it helps for efficiency, great, but it should not be at the expense of connection.
Rich:Yeah, and I'll take that from. I agree wholeheartedly. And you mentioned culture and that culture often is more important than strategy and I've worked for an organization or two in my past that has amplified that. I find that sometimes I've worked in places that feel that a new system is going to solve their issues, when in fact the issues are process driven, communication driven or culture driven. But there is this reliance on well, we're going to update this new system and it's going to come out in two years and it's going to solve what you or I could be solving today through conversation and through putting together better communication and processes. So I agree wholeheartedly.
Sheryl:One of the things I learned was actually from Disney and this was when I was in banking. But you know, at Disney they teach you that everything counts and experience is everything. And I was fascinated that you know Disney, they make waiting in line pleasurable. They don't try to make the line go faster they could possibly, and then again they've done express, pass and so forth but they make the wait in line, the experience. And then you know, on a similar vein, when the independent sales force at Mary Kay calls, until they're connected with some customer success representative to help them, they hear Mary Kay's words of wisdom and sometimes sales force will say oh, I answered the phone so quickly. I wanted to hear more of the recording of Mary Kay Ash's words of wisdom, words of wisdom. So, again, thinking about experience, not just in terms of some of the measurable elements of you know how fast, duration, etc. But are you making the experience meaningful and memorable?
Paula:Okay, so that's actually a really good segue. So let's move on to the next section. So, words of wisdom. So what are some of the best words of wisdom that you have received throughout your career?
Sheryl:The best advice that I received and I share it broadly and frequently and that's to own your uniqueness. I call it owning your bold. I have come to learn that you cannot stand out when you're trying to fit in, and when I look back at the times that I was most successful and, more importantly, more satisfied, it's when I followed my instincts and didn't try to quote play by someone else's playbook, which is not to say you don't. Take advantage and learn from as many people as you can. You can learn how to do things, you can learn what not to do, but at the end of the day, I really do think it's so important that every individual have the confidence to bring their unique talent, experience and perspective to their role.
Rich:All right, I'll jump in with the next question the most underrated skill. What is, in your opinion, the most underrated skill that a person can have today there?
Sheryl:is, I'll say, a pressure, so to speak. Our attention span is shorter than a goldfish. I don't know how they know what goldfish pay attention to, but somehow somebody knows. But this notion of people multitasking and we have to be quick, you have to have a soundbite, et cetera, et cetera. I think that listening we say it's important I don't know if we always act like it's important and at the end of the day, it is, I think, one of the most important skills and resources that we have. And when I say listen, it's listening to our teams, it's listening to our colleagues.
Sheryl:I'm a big Stephen Covey fan. Seek first to understand, then be understood, and I think right now too much might be missed because we don't take enough time to listen. If you could go back to that young woman in college taking fashion, merchandising or going to Harvard, any advice that you would give her? I think, if I look back at that time in my life, I would have been even more intentional about traveling more, getting to know more people. It is something that I began to incorporate more along the way, but particularly in this day and age, knowing how important a global sensibility is and being able to view what is said, what is shown through the lens of a global community, particularly now with social media. Everybody sees everything. So I think if I had to go back, that would be something I probably would have been even more intentional about.
Paula:Awesome. Well, cheryl, we have come to the last section, which is the rapid fire. Are you ready? I'm ready, all right, so it's going to be a question. It'll be rich then me, and then rich again. The first question that comes to our mind and the first answer that comes to your mind, all right, so my question is what three people, dead or alive, would you have at a dinner party? Ooh, good.
Sheryl:One First person who comes to mind is Michelle Obama, not only for all that we know about her and all that she has shared, but I feel like at a dinner conversation I might gain even a little bit more insight in a private conversation, so she comes to mind. The second person I think I would really welcome the opportunity to spend time with is actually a musician Stevie Wonder. I love music and as I think about his career, his musical journey over the last I want to say five decades, all that he has experienced, I just think that would be a fascinating conversation. The third person who I think is just so fascinating on so many levels is actually Eleanor Roosevelt, and such a trailblazer, such an advocate for so many, so influential and impactful. The more I read and learn about her and her role and I'm sure there are so many things she deserves a lot of credit for that maybe have not been fully, it hasn't been fully highlighted just yet, but those are the three who come to mind first.
Rich:So I'm going to leverage. I love the. I love all three. Eleanor Roosevelt I agree with you. She's one who I've been reading on a little bit more lately and it is amazing some things that people would take for granted that she highly influenced. All right. So I'm going to stay with the music theme, and normally I would ask you what your walk on music is, but I'll let you answer that one or I'll give you the alternate of what would be the most surprising artist or song on your playlist.
Sheryl:Oh my gosh, I have so many songs on my playlist I don't know what would you know? It depends who you might ask and to what extent they would be surprised. I'm gonna say that one of my favorite songs is Shining Star by Earth, wind, fire. What I love about that is such a great affirmation, and I love it for my own walk on music, but I also love it for anyone and everyone else that you are shining bright and a shining star and I think not enough people remember that about themselves. And I love the fact that that song really celebrates the greatness that's in each of us, that that song really celebrates the greatness that's in each of us.
Rich:All right, so I'll ask the final question, and you mentioned that with Mary Kay, you've traveled to at least 20 countries and likely beyond that.
Sheryl:Was there a country that surprised you? I was, first of all, all the countries. My experience was lovely and the warmth of every team and so forth. Ukraine, and Kyiv specifically. Just a beautiful city, much more colorful, more green. Not what I expected. It was certainly my first and only time that I had a chance to visit there many years ago, but that really stands out to me because I really didn't know what to expect there.
Rich:And it does have a way of pulling the world a little bit closer together and realizing what people are going through when you, it's one thing to see it through technology, it's another thing to see it in, you know, with your, with your real eyes. Cheryl, thank you very much. This was amazing. I've been waiting for this since we started the podcast. I will personally confess that when we were developing our initial guest list, you were there. You've always been a marketer who I've long admired, a person that I've admired, marketer who I've long admired, a person that I've admired, and the customer focus that I was able to see firsthand in Dallas and globally through Mary Kay is something I tremendously respect, and I am looking forward to see what the next chapter holds for you.
Sheryl:Oh well, thank you so much. I really do appreciate the opportunity to have this conversation with all of you.
Rich:So that was a great conversation with Cheryl Atkins Green. I will note that one of the awards she has many that she didn't talk about was when she beat me for CMO of the year in DFW, but it was a fond memory for me because I was up against her and the CMO at JCPenney at the time. She is impressive. I've learned much from her over the last many years.
Gautham:Yeah, I enjoyed the conversation. It was. I mean, her breadth of experiences across different industry sectors was fascinating. And you know, bringing it all back down to we've spoken about this many times retail is a people business. Irrespective of which industry, it boils down to being a people business.
Rich:Yeah, and I found it. It was interesting when I asked her the question about Mary Kay and I was talking about it being retail and she said you know, it wasn't that it wasn't retail, but it wasn't traditional retail and it was that she almost seemed to separate it from what the average person would think of as retail, as bricks and mortar, that normal kind of store or web transaction. I find that interesting and I wonder, as we've explored so many different angles of retail and are trying to encourage those looking for a career to come into it, has retail been too narrowly defined? You know you've got a lot more direct sellers and a lot more you've got retail being done on social channels. Is the definition that everybody's using way too narrow?
Gautham:I'm laughing because there was a point when I was asked to define retail and I just defined it as any exchange, and when you're between an end consumer and a business, maybe that's a little bit too broad, but I think retail is purely a vehicle for exchange between an end consumer and maybe not even an end consumer, now right and a business. And who knows, if you take that broader blanket, maybe we'll have a more wide scope definition of retail that allows us to position it differently to the upcoming generation.
Rich:And you wonder how Mary Kay influenced what you see now going on on social channels, or how QVC and Home Shopping Network influence what we see with live stream now and how popular it is around the world. So great guest, I think. Just another really cool dimension within the retail ecosphere.
Gautham:Yeah, I enjoyed the conversation. That was fantastic.
Rich:All right Well for Paula, who had to jump off a little bit early. Gautam and myself want to thank everybody for joining us for this episode of Retail Relates. We hope you continue to stay tuned, send your cards and letters and we look forward to you tuning in the next episode.
