Retail Relates
'Retail Relates' is not just a podcast; it's a journey into the heart of retail and commerce. Our episodes traverse the path from traditional marketplaces to digital platforms, highlighting the successes, trials, and invaluable lessons learned along the way. We're conversing with those shaping the industry—from the front lines to behind the scenes, the creative minds to the global strategists - offering a diverse 360-degree perspective. We're revealing the relationships and personal narratives that make retail engaging and accessible. 'Retail Relates' is an invitation to explore the world's interconnectedness through the lens of retail, encouraging listeners to discover the personal journeys and stories of those who drive innovation and unite us across cultures and continents.
Retail Relates
Balancing Art, Science, and Leadership in Retail: A Conversation with Deirdre Fitzgerald
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Discover the compelling journey of Deirdre Fitzgerald, President of International for Knitwell Group, as she takes you through her inspiring career in retail. From her initial days at Bloomingdale's through her transformative experiences at New Balance, Deirdre's path is marked by pivotal moments that shaped her into the leader she is today. Tune in to hear how a passion for retail blossomed from her background in English literature to her dynamic roles across cosmetics and men's apparel confirmed her calling in this vibrant industry.
Unearth the delicate interplay of art and science that defines retail merchandising today. Deirdre shares her expertise on balancing intuition with data-driven insights, offering a fresh take on making informed product and consumer decisions. As traditional training programs like Bloomingdale's fade, we explore new strategies for nurturing talent and the critical role of localization in global markets. Discover the unique challenges faced by merchants and the evolving role they play in shaping the future of retail.
Gain strategic insights into navigating the retail landscape with a focus on consumer behavior, inventory management, and the balance between online and brick-and-mortar experiences. Deirdre generously imparts career advice, underscoring the importance of long-term thinking, effective leadership, and embracing failure as a powerful learning tool. Highlighting the value of mentorship and team development, she emphasizes the significance of personal growth, continuous learning, and the strength of individual relationships. Join us as we wrap up with Deirdre's refreshing perspective on leadership, life inspirations, and the camaraderie that fuels success in this ever-evolving industry.
Biography: DEIRDRE FITZGERALD
Deirdre FitzGerald is the President of International for KnitWell Group a dominant portfolio of women’s specialty retail brands including Ann Taylor, Chico’s, Lane Bryant, LOFT, Soma, Talbots, and White House Black Market, that together generate more than $6 Billion in sales annually. In her role Deirdre leads the development and implementation of growth strategies designed to expand the value and reach of the brands through strategic partnerships domestically and internationally.
Previously, Deirdre served as President of the Talbots brand, an iconic American apparel retailer with more than 500 stores across the United States as well as an online business that together generate more than $1.2 billion in sales annually. As President, in partnership with her leadership team, she created stability amidst the pandemic and restored financial growth and profitability to the brand.
Prior to Talbots, Deirdre spent seven years with New Balance where she served as the Executive Vice President of Global Apparel and Licensing. In her role she led the transformation of the Global Apparel design, Innovation, Product management, Merchandising, and Licensing teams, resulting in a period of unprecedented growth and profitability.
Earlier in her career Deirdre spent nearly a decade with the Talbots brand, ultimately serving as the Executive Vice President and General Merchandise Manager for Talbots and she also served as the Head of Men's Apparel at J. Crew and in various merchandising roles at Brooks Brothers. Deirdre began her career at Bloomingdales’ where she completed their executive training program.
Deirdre is committed to supporting women and is a member of the Global Board of Directors for Dress for Success, an organization dedicated to empowering women. She is also on the Advisory Board for the Hingham Historical Society and the Board of Directors for Repurpose for a Purpose.
Deirdre holds a BA in English Literature from
So I'm excited for you guys. I know Paul is going to be on mute for part of this, but I'm excited to have Deirdre on Retail Relates today.
Gautham:I'm looking forward to this conversation, which is it's always good to see someone who's risen up through the ranks, always with a merchandising focus and with all the conversations around product assortment and product mix, around product assortment and product mix, it will be great to hear her take on how they view innovation within the context of products and merchandise. Look forward to this conversation.
Rich:We are excited to welcome Deirdre Fitzgerald to the program today. Deirdre is the president of International for Knitwell Group, a powerhouse portfolio of women's specialty retail brands which includes Ann Taylor, chico's Lane Bryant, loft, soma, talbot's and White House Black Market, together generating over $6 billion in sales annually. With a remarkable career spanning over three decades, deirdre has significantly influenced the retail industry through her strategic leadership and innovative growth strategy. She previously served as the president of the Talbots brand, steering it towards financial growth and stability during challenging times. Prior to joining Talbots, deirdre held executive roles at New Balance and JCrew and Brooks Brothers, showcasing her diverse global apparel merchandising and brand management expertise. She's also an active community leader, involved in initiatives such as Dress for Success and serving on the boards of Hingham Historical Society and Repurpose for a Purpose. For those interested in Deirdre's extensive journey and contributions to retail, her full biography is available on our show link.
Paula:Deirdre Fitzgerald, thank you so much for being on the show. We're so honored to have you here, especially someone with such incredible brands under their name. Oh, I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you for having me. Let's start off with a little bit about your journey. So we're going to post your bio in the show notes. So we don't want to hear about that. We want to hear about your three pivotal moments in your career. So what are the three most pivotal moments in your career? So what are the three most pivotal moments in your career that, or your life, have led you to where you are today?
Deirdre:Yeah, that's gonna be hard to get it to three, but I guess if I, if I were on a desert island and had to narrow it down to three, I think probably joining Bloomingdale's, you know, out of college and getting into that training program and being a part of that. I spent 12 years in New York but ultimately the decision to leave New York, move to Boston and become a part of what now is Knitwell Group was pretty pivotal. And then joining New Balance. So I spent time at New Balance and that was really an eye-opening experience as far as what it means to be a part of a global brand. If I think, practically speaking, when you go through your career. I think when you first become responsible for a business is pretty pivotal, and then, much further down the road, when you shift from functional expertise to enterprise leader, that is a real, real pivot and Rich I know you have experienced that but that is definitely that's a big move that requires a lot of energy and it's very rewarding.
Gautham:What does that big move entail? Moving from a functional leader to leading an entire corporation?
Deirdre:Typically, when you sit on a senior leadership team, you really are responsible for oversight, guidance, participation in the full enterprise and up until that point, you've typically been the leader of your function. So you're advocating for that function, you're pushing for that function, and it forces you to prioritize and really think about the different teams and the different capabilities that exist within an organization. It's great, it's fun, but a lot of people aren't prepared for it, so it takes quite a bit of learning.
Paula:So did you set out wanting to go into retail. So is this what you initially envisioned? And if not, what was your original?
Deirdre:Yeah, yes and no, yes and no. So I majored in English literature in school, so if that would probably suggest that I didn't set out to pursue a career in retail. But, that being said, I always loved it and I wanted to be a buyer. I had summer jobs working in boutiques and had a taste of retail. But it really came down to should I should I go to law school, which is what my my parents probably would have preferred, or should I should I go into retail? You know, and ultimately it was the first job at Bloomingdale's that kind of secured it for me, but it definitely was always something I wanted and I don't think I really knew how to get there until I was fortunate enough to be part of the training program.
Paula:So that's interesting. So what was it about Bloomingdale's that secured it for you? Was it the training program or was it just the experience?
Deirdre:Yeah, it was a very developed training program where there was a rhythm and there was training and there was a, I guess, a pretty explicit career path. So you would start and what was really special about it is that you spend time working in stores and working in the buying office, and so the program toggled back and forth and I also had experiences in a ton of different categories. So I was in cosmetics, I was in kids, I was in men's and so also had experiences in a ton of different categories. So I was in cosmetics, I was in kids, I was in men's, and so your experience and your perspective was constantly changing. It was fast paced, it was dynamic, so it was great and it was an incredible training.
Paula:Yeah, that sounds great. The clarity and the direction and then also the diversity of the training. Yeah, yeah, you couldn't ask for a better start. So you've got a long history of successes, which we will highlight in the show notes, but is there a particular? I mean, you are very impressive woman.
Deirdre:I'm very honored to be.
Paula:Is there a particular failure that stands out as a lesson learned that you would give to other people?
Deirdre:I don't. To be honest, I don't there's a lot to choose from and I don't I wouldn't say that one stands out. You know, probably, I guess probably, what I would say is there will be many, there are many, there will be many. It's not fatal and everybody fails and you know, probably my best failure is yet to come. But really I think if you look at it and you're like what did I learn? What mistake did I make? Did I step away from the customer? Did I stop listening? Did I go back to the well too much? You know all of these things kind of build your perspective and build your capabilities. So you know it's win or learn. So you know it's win or learn.
Rich:How challenging was it to move from kind of jumping in the fray and brainstorming and building to leading a group doing that and do you find yourself having to kind of pull yourself back from wanting to jump into the mix to build something?
Deirdre:Yeah, you know that's a good question and, rich, I expect that you feel this way. One of the most important things is to know when to step in and when not to step in. And you know, as a leader, you always have to enable whatever you can do to enable. But you also have to meet people where they are and understand when you can be at 30,000 feet, when you can be at 15, when you need to dip down to one. And it's that ability or not ability requirement to constantly recalibrate and change your altitude depending on the team that I think is super important as you progress throughout your career. They probably tell me to get out of it, rich.
Rich:I was going to say do you have what I have? We have team huddles every three or four weeks and we play a game of what did Rich say, what did he mean? And did he actually say that? Because I find I get credit for a lot of things that I didn't really say.
Deirdre:Yeah.
Rich:So we have to sift through it.
Deirdre:Yeah, yeah. I found out just yesterday that you know I was the butt of one of the jokes where I have asked many people on our team did we get paid, did we get paid? She's always going to ask did we get paid? So it's. But you know, you gotta, you gotta laugh.
Rich:So I'm going to jump into really the lesson and I actually want to start with a question that's not on there, but the Bloomingdale's Executive Training Program that has. When that was there, when Federated and Make Company and Macy's were doing similar programs, it became almost a retail MBA. It was a badge there that isn't being done anymore. Do you see that as being a miss and how do retailers have to make up that gap?
Deirdre:being a miss and how do retailers have to make up that gap? Yeah, so a couple of things. I agree with you 100% that it was a retail MBA and I used to kind of jokingly refer to it as a free MBA. It does not really exist.
Deirdre:I have seen the evolution of the internship and I think it's come a long way in many different businesses, but the investment in training, uh, is so critical and I think when people are, when people are young and they are considering a role, considering an organization, asking what's the? What's the, what are the training opportunities? Where the developmental opportunities? And then asking someone who you're considering working for, what was their best developmental experience and how did they, how did they develop that? Their team members, what, how did they invest in their team? Every consumer or every employee sentiment survey that comes back is going to say people want more, they want more development, more opportunity. So you got to as to as a person who is charting their career path, you have to ask those questions and you have to do your best to work with someone, or work on a team with someone who believes in that type of training and who's going to provide it for you. So, because I don't think it exists at a corporate level.
Gautham:Rich Because I don't think it exists at a corporate level. Rich, Can I ask you about your past Sure? You said you were always interested in being a buyer and you've been in a merchant role for a significant amount of time Like 15 years. Scott. Yes, but you know consumer trends change everything. Technology changes, demands change, market factors change. What is the essence to being a merchant today, and how would you define successful merchants today?
Deirdre:So you know, the answer hasn't changed and I would tell you it is art and science 100% constantly. Someone had said to me once which I thought was really important is that the art will fail you and the science cannot. So having that balance is critical, and every business has their science, every business has the metrics or the KPIs that are really important to what they do. So you got to appreciate the art, you got to enjoy the art. I think that there's an element of passion which is always present and as the merchant, you're often in that central role and people will say it's the center, you know, the center hub. So, connecting with all the different people, you know, in the simplest sense, you are responsible for creating product that consumers are going to want to purchase and engage with. So it's brand, it's consumer, it's art, it's science, how you access. That has changed over X number of years, but fundamentally those are the things you have to pay attention to. I want to ask a follow-up question on that.
Gautham:Yeah, those are the things you have to pay attention to. I want to ask a follow-up question on that. You said consumers, brands, customers. How do you access what customers? I feel like? Customer taste and preferences evolved so dramatically today. How do you stay in tune with it? How do you figure out to minimize the risks that companies take?
Deirdre:Yeah, you know, one thing that has happened over the years is every customer has excuse me, every organization has invested in data analytics, consumer analytics, and that's something that didn't exist. You know, at an earlier point in your career you didn't have a team or a partner who you could work with to garner insights. And now you've got. You have that as part of your team, part of your cross functional team, and you know, I can think of an example just last week where trying to figure out what the demand for a specific product at a specific brand in a specific country and you've got access to that data. You can see what your awareness is, what the consumer shopping behavior is, and then it's about making the choices. So you've got the data. You've got to figure out how you want to use it and how you want to interpret it.
Rich:You oversee growth strategies for multiple brands. You are looking at growth in other countries. How do you manage even going expand on the data answer or even going beyond the data? How are you managing the different customers, the different expectations and the different countries?
Deirdre:Yeah. So I mentioned earlier that my time at New Balance was pretty pivotal and that was really the first time that I was engaged in a global business. And I say global because I had worked in businesses that had international presence, but I had not really been involved in a global business. And when you are, you've got different currencies, you've got different cultures, you've got different geographies and you have to accept an element of localization to enable success. And you know, if you don't do that and you're here's my brand, here's my way, here's how we're going to do it it won't be successful.
Deirdre:But having a two-way dialogue with the market, the region, the partner is critical and you have to build relationships and that is that is. You know, that's important everywhere. But it's a little different than managing or leading a business that's in one geography, in one time zone, where you're down the hall from each other and you can have those conversations. When you're in a different time zone, you have to focus on your communication, you have to build trust and you have to ensure that you're enabling productivity with your partners or your subsidiaries. So it's a different muscle and it's a different process.
Gautham:Let me ask a follow-up on that question. When you have these different organizations, different countries, how do you achieve coordination and, most importantly, redundancy minimized redundancies? That can happen and perhaps cross-pollinate and get innovation going across boundaries?
Deirdre:Yeah, how do you avoid redundancy? That is an excellent question. That may be a podcast in and of itself, but you know, I think that you can't lose sight of profit. So, and that is that's a global organization, that's any organization You've got to have profit or a path to profit in in everything that you're doing and then that's going to, that's going to connect to your. You've got to be sure that you can support it with resources or redirect the resources to make that opportunity fruitful and worthwhile, and it doesn't have to be fruitful immediately, but there has to be a path to it. So it's pretty important. Gautam, did that answer your question?
Gautham:I'm smiling because you said focus on profits. You know, and oftentimes people focus on top line growth. Yeah, and I heard you say profits and I love that.
Deirdre:Or path to profit. You know, I love that you got to be able to see it from there.
Paula:Yeah.
Rich:So how do you approach the, whether it's innovation from a trend perspective, from a fabric perspective? How are you encouraging your teams to do that? And I'll extend the the profit equation to that as well.
Deirdre:Yeah. So I think that innovation is a is a frightening word for a lot of people and I think in 95 percent of the situations you could replace it with newness. You could just change the word and say what are we doing to drive newness, and that becomes so much more digestible for teams. You know, and in any product business, it's about not staying still and it's about iterating, iterating, iterating, and so much of innovation is iteration. And then there's then there's the disruptive piece, which is, you know, it takes a long time and doesn't always happen and there's tons of failures getting there.
Deirdre:But Keeping your eye on fresh product and newness is critical. You know, if you go back to the data piece, the data can inform your choices and any strategy, as you guys all know, is about tradeoffs and strategic choices and what you're going to invest in and what you're not going to invest in. So when you can incorporate data into that and you keep teams focused on what's new, what's new, what's new, and then that goes back to the science, how much newness do you want? So, you know, constantly checking that. To wrap it up, I think that the word innovation terrifies a lot of people and gets overused.
Gautham:You said how much newness do you want? I'm a researcher who focuses on innovation. We talk about radical versus incremental. How do you approach? I mean, that's a really, really tough question from a leadership. How do you approach that?
Deirdre:You know, I think in a now I'm going to go back to like the super nerdy we're buying a line you got to have at least 10%. That's new. You know, and that's when you're looking at it. You've got stuff that you know. You've got your existing business drivers and that doesn't mean that it's I've never tested it, I just I just came up with this idea. You got to have some, some logic and rationale and trend and it needs to be supported. But I think you got to have 10%. That's new.
Gautham:I have to update my notes. I keep saying 20%, so I'm going to update that to 10%. You know I used to borrow it to a rule 80 to 80 dollars a week.
Deirdre:You know, a lot of what we do is looking at buys and looking at investments, and so there's the fashion, the color, the silhouette, what's new, what's happening, and then you get to the numbers. What are we buying? What's the leg shape, what's the depth? There's a lot of analytics that go into that.
Gautham:And then you you got to make sure that you've got stuff that's new, that you can support, and you got to market it. You got to put it in front of people you talked about freshness, identifying freshness and so forth. We see, especially in the fashion when I teach classes, people most of the time on tiktok and instagram talking about fashion trends and capturing what's fashion. How does the company stay abreast of that, like in that 10% that you just talked about?
Deirdre:A lot of it is shopping and market research, you know, and it is.
Deirdre:You know, you're out and you're visiting different countries and you're watching people and you're going to shops and every brand has a brand that they look at or someone that they aspire to, that they watch, they look at, or someone that they aspire to, that they watch, that they use to. You know, as a bellwether of change and trend, and that's, I mean, that's one of the best parts of the job is, you know, really being out there, being in the streets looking at fashion. That's a big part of it. And then there's, but there's also publications, and now you've got the McKinsey's. What's happening. You know the state of fashion. You've got tons of, tons of information that's coming in, but that's, you know, in the, in the process, I would say, like when you're thinking about what a product lifecycle calendar is time for for research, product research, consumer research, and you know I talked about New Balance a little bit but being in markets and traveling and making sure that you are seeing and meeting and talking, all that is really important.
Rich:So I'm going to pivot to consumer behavior and I'm tempted, at some point, to ask you, since there's no such thing as a perfect balance are you 51-49 art or science? Depends who I'm talking to are you 51, 49 art or science. So, from a consumer behavior perspective, what changes have you seen throughout your career and, as you look forward, how do you think consumer behavior is going to continue to evolve?
Deirdre:You know, I think, the immediacy of information, of trend of style, you know just the obviously the digital evolution has been massive and from where we started to where we are now, and what consumers expect as far as speed of change, what consumers know as far as product and countries and their exposure is, is, you know, it's really incredible. You know, I think, probably you know there's there's too much choice. You know, in the world of retail and product, and I think that is probably what you're going to see change as you look forward.
Rich:So how do you think that's going to impact students that are looking at, or those early in their career that are looking at, retail? If we are indeed going to reduce consumption as a society, how does that change someone thinking about this as a career?
Deirdre:Well, I would make good choices with where you go. I would say is this brand durable? Does it connect to consumers? Are they thoughtful from an environmental perspective, from a sustainability perspective? And then I think in the simplest level is the product and investment and is it durable and will it stand the test of time?
Rich:you know, those are the businesses that people are going to invest in looking ahead, what do you think, beyond consumer behavior, what are the bigger trends that you're looking at?
Deirdre:in retail. I think the biggest I want to choose my word correctly I think the biggest consideration is stores and inventory and how you think about that. You know you go into the pandemic and every coming out of the pandemic, every, everyone's online contribution has has increased dramatically. You know it's gotten to a place that people never anticipated and now we're back to stores and as a brand or as a I'll take my, I'll take the brand out of it as a shopper, there's got to be the expectation of newness, of being able to interact with product and having choice. And so, as retailers and brands balance inventory and store energy. And how big do I want my stores to be? I think that the future of the mall, the future of the store, how much inventory people are going to carry and is it exciting? Is that the biggest unlock for brands, and it's a big one. If the customer comes in and you don't have their size, they're not able to touch the product, they're not going to come back.
Paula:Deidre, that's incredible. Thank you for that insight, especially into the nuances of retail and how it all works right and from the business perspective. Let's take another step and talk about what advice you would have for people. So this is a chance to offer students and aspiring retail professionals practical advice and insights that either in the industry, career or even just overall. If you had to boil it down to one thing, which may be hard, what is the best advice you've ever received in your career?
Deirdre:Uh, I don't think I can give you one, but I'll give you, I'll give you, I'll give you a couple, because I would put too much pressure on myself to come up with the most critical piece of advice, because you get a lot, you know, I think that the cliche one is that it's a marathon, not a sprint, and that manifests itself day after day, year after year. And I think when you're early in your career and you know the person to the left you got a promotion and you've been in this job for a year and a half and you know these kind of moments in time it really, over a long period of time, equals out and I think constantly thinking about the longer term view is super important. You know, I think that you want to be aggressive with your career, you want to take challenges. All those things are important.
Deirdre:The other piece of advice that and I don't know if it's advice as much as a comment, but I reflect on it regularly is I had a boss who talked to me a lot about tension and the tension that exists in developing a business and it really connects to how tightly or how loosely you hold the reins, and I think that constantly being aware of that. Tension is super important for teams and products and how you think about a business growing and you don't want to hold it so tightly that you constrain opportunity and you don't want to hold it so loosely that you lose control but how you, how you manage that tension is, um, is super important. I remember I think about it a lot actually and it was really, I think it was a good observation.
Paula:Yeah, that's that hits home, especially as a mother or with a family, I can imagine. As a woman and being where you are, I feel like you've had to navigate that tension more so than other people is my assumption.
Rich:So any particular mentors that that come to mind that have guided you.
Deirdre:Yeah, you know there are, you know you have a lot in there their friends and mentors and colleagues. Probably the one that stands out for me was a leader who's really focused on developing high performing teams and he was a I wasn't gonna use pronouns, but there you go a big believer in good to great and spent a lot of time in coaching and leadership development and it was really a fantastic experience and I think that they took the role of leader and the responsibility of leadership very, very seriously. I appreciated that. I learned a ton and model a lot of that behavior.
Gautham:Lisa, good to great. Yeah, Let me just ask you about your leadership philosophy, right? So when I've talked to senior leaders, they talk their two approaches to mentorship focus on the top group or help bring the bottom up, or maybe a combination. How do you see things? Because you have limited resources, how do you develop everyone in your team to become that high performing team?
Deirdre:I do think that you you really focus on where you can make impact and you work on team skills, but you also focus on individual relationships and where there is, I'm going to say, a, an opportunity and a two-way interest in development is super important. You've got to focus on your leaders. You know those are the folks that influence the organization Aligned messaging. You know leadership behaviors, leadership principles, ensuring that you as a group are saying the same thing sincerely it's not a picture on a wall but that you've come to these behaviors collectively and that you model them as a group. And I said to someone in the middle of my career every leader is a person and they're fallible and they're going to make mistakes, and forgiveness is important as well, so I think that keeping that in mind is critical.
Rich:When you're looking at talent, what do you think is the? What's the most underrated skill set, or what's the skill set that you really are trying to pinpoint the most?
Deirdre:You know it depends on the role 100%. But I think you know an individual has to be committed. It doesn't mean they have to identify with, but they have to be committed to the brand and the consumer. You know have an appreciation for that. As far as a kind of a personal capability, I think we got to have a sense of humor.
Deirdre:That is that is is critical, and then you know it, really it varies by team and by position. You know you want to, you want to create a team that fills different, different skill sets and different gaps, and what you don't want to do is you don't want to have 10 people to do the same thing or think the same way or look the same way. You're not going to, you're going to miss things if that's the case. From when you get later on in your career, when you're looking at senior people, I think executive courage is probably one of the most important things that you need to have on a team and that is, you know you got to be able, you got to say it, you got to mean it, You've got to be able to speak the unpopular. So having that element of executive courage when you're at that senior group is critical.
Rich:So you mentioned committed to the brand. Yeah is critical. So you mentioned committed to the brand yeah and I we've probably both worked for people that believe that in order to be a great merchant, you have to live the brand.
Deirdre:Yeah.
Rich:Do you think that's necessary? How are you defining committed to the brand?
Deirdre:Yeah, I, I, I don't think it's necessary to live the brand. I think having an appreciation and commitment and understanding it and understanding the consumer, that that's the commitment level. It doesn't you don't have to be that person, they don't have to be you, but you have to know who your customers, know what your brand is and be committed to that. And some sometimes that the brand isn't a brand, isn't for a person and that's okay, that's. It's just probably not the right match.
Rich:So yeah, I've encountered those situations where it's it's it's good to have buy-in, but I think there are times where executives feel that you have to be part of it in order to understand it and sometimes that's actually limiting because you might not evolve as the customer evolves.
Deirdre:Yeah, One thing I would add is I do think there are places where credibility is important, and you know I think about that from a performance perspective and you know there's an element of credibility that is going to be important, particularly if you are in front of accounts or teams. So there is an element of that, but I think appreciation for the brand is the most important.
Gautham:You know, when you said when Paul asked the question about how would you distill it to one or two, I was thinking you'd go in a very different direction, but I love what you said. It's a marathon, not a sprint. And within that you also said something that struck me very close, which is not to compare yourself with others, right? I have a six-year-old daughter and one of the two things I keep telling her is like don't compare yourself with others, just compare yourself with who you are and see better. It's very easy to say it, I know, I say it a lot, but I can't do it myself. How do you encourage that in your team to actually improve themselves daily, not to draw these comparisons and have that longer term vision?
Deirdre:Yeah, you know, I don't know if I could say, I don't know if I can answer that on a daily basis, but I do think, messaging that you're always learning and that there's something that you're going to learn from every experience good, bad. You know, whatever category you're in, whatever role you're in, you know, for some younger people where they may feel like they've been in their job and they've mastered it, that's the opportunity to teach someone else. So start to teach and show your experience and capabilities is important and you know, the other thing is raise your hand for the extra project. If it's out there like, take it.
Rich:All right. So I have one last question, and then we're going to go into the uh, the rapid fire. What do you personally do for inspiration?
Deirdre:Oh, um, I like to be outside so exercise nature. Um, that's where I, that's where I clear my head, do a lot of thinking, so that's that's my thing. No, electronics.
Rich:You can actually do that. You can get rid of the electronics for a period of time.
Deirdre:I do Yep, yep. So, and I can tell you, there are. We all have things where you are struggling to write a letter or you've got something you have to do, and I find that getting some exercise clear ahead, it will flow, and so I think it's probably one of the best things you can do for yourself.
Rich:All right, so I'm going to kick off the rapid fire round. Quick answer, first thing that comes into your head. I am going to give you a choice on the first one either your go-to comfort food or, knowing that you've traveled to various places around the world for product development, for trend shopping, your most memorable meal.
Deirdre:Oh God, okay. So my favorite meal is my husband makes bucatini amatriciana and that is insane. It's so good, so my daughter and I will both request it. I'm making that a lot. And then probably favorite meal would be Voltaire in Paris. So the avocado and grapefruit salad, followed by steak and then chocolate mousse. That's why I have to exercise.
Gautham:Good choice, yeah, so we'll stick with the around the world theme then. So you said you enjoy being outdoors. What's the? If you could transport yourself to any part of the world, where would it be?
Deirdre:So my favorite place to travel is Tokyo or Japan. So, and that is whenever I travel, I try and make that my last stop because it's my favorite. So, but that is, that's probably probably my favorite. But I, you know, I like to go different places, I like to experience different things, lots of different places. But that's, if you forced me to pick one, that would probably be it.
Paula:All right, probably the most important question you're going to get all day and remember. It's the first thing that pops in your mind. Will you sing happy birthday to Rich Sure? Yeah, I'm not a great singer but I will, so you don't have to do it alone gotham said that he would lead it.
Deirdre:Okay, rich is rich is 29th.
Rich:Rich is 29th birthday, you bet what age do you stop considering birthdays?
Deirdre:never really. Yeah, I'm not always certain how old I am. I lose track of that sometimes, um, but the day to celebrate and eat cake for sure, well.
Paula:Deidre, thank you so much for joining us, Thank you Gotham, Thank you Rich. As always, my podcast BFFs, and we're just really excited for this episode to come out. So thank you again for your time.
Rich:All right. So you have to love it when your podcast BFF has a little bit of surprise in waiting for you. So I enjoyed the rendition of Happy Birthday, one of the best I've heard. But obviously I will edit that out because I'm not sure how it'll show up on a podcast. But, gautam, what did you? What did you think after hearing from from Deirdre?
Gautham:So I feel like a common theme. I'm going to talk about both the narrative style as well as the substantive context and the narrative style. I feel like it's a common theme. Like all these, leaders are very precise in the use of words and very elo. I think it's important that we develop those communication skills and keep practicing that. It's something that's been an eye opener for me is hearing these people speak and the address, no exception.
Rich:Yeah, I would agree and I think it's one of those that I mentioned it at the beginning of the podcast that she was one of the first true retail professionals and not to disparage those that I worked with at Joseph Bank, because they were professional as well but moving to New York City and getting to work for what was at the time the oldest retail in America and just seeing somebody like Deirdre, who had gone through the Bloomingdale's training program and that was eye opening as well to hear her talk about that and sit in meetings with her and just see the way that she conducted herself, it was really that's what showed me what this industry is capable of, and just some amazingly intelligent people. The loss of leadership programs in retail.
Gautham:You and I have had this conversation. I do think conversation that you talked about with the Bloomingdale leadership group was an important conversation in the context of who we're trying to talk to.
Rich:Yeah, and I wonder. We started a training program which I'm very excited about. It's been very productive, I think to a year-long training program and I don't know that. I realized that they moved as often as they did from buying to the selling floor to buying to the selling floor, and I know we've talked to others that have talked about that discontent or disconnect that happens between headquarters and the field and you wonder and I'm sure there are retailers out there that do this but you wonder if that's one of the things that is missing and that you know, as an industry we need to entertain and bring back.
Gautham:I think it's a long-term plan, right, it's a systematic plan that requires a lot of partners to work together. I don't know what the appetite is and perhaps those programs didn't pay the dividends. Well, let's talk a little bit about the other things that she spoke about, and I want to start with what I had asked her, which is the product mix question and the level of innovation in there, and I found it interesting that she talked about only 10% of newness, and I'm on record saying that. Oh, I teach my class say 80-20. And I wonder, Rich, is that common? Do you see that mix in your experience amongst the retailers that you have engaged with?
Rich:You know, I think it depends. It's probably a little bit and I don't want to use the word conservative it's probably a little bit lower than what I'm used to. But I think it has to do with a couple of factors. One, you know, I would imagine that if you go to a fast fashion retail, if you go to Zara, their proportions are going to be dramatically different. So I think part of it has to do with the lifestyle of the brand and who the customer is. But I also think it has to do with, again, she's a very keen merchant with an understanding of what the customer is going to buy and what her team needs to invest their time in.
Rich:I remember my first buying job and somebody who was mentoring me took me to a bar to celebrate and I was excited because I was going to change the world and I started talking about all the fashionable things that I was going to develop, and this was a menswear, and he was just listening. He said all right, I want you to stand up and I want you to see what everybody's wearing. As I described it, he said you can do all the fashion and all the newness you want, but it's the basics that are going to sell and it's the basics that are going to pay the bills. I think it's successful if you don't expend the energy on things that aren't necessarily going to wind up on the top four.
Gautham:I'm curious what I also find fascinating in the conversation about leadership and how it evolved, right like how she had to evolve as a leader from being a functional to more of the executor that looks over the different functions. How was it for you, what, what were the challenges that it that it took for you to overcome that focus on being goal-oriented towards your functional performance, to being more looking across the spectrum.
Rich:It is probably one of the most challenging things. It's tough for me. I love to brainstorm, I love to jump into the mix and toss around ideas. I hate the sound of silence, the introvert that I am Problem is is that you do learn over time that if you, if you have a title and you hold a certain position, that oftentimes you're going to shut down conversation and you're going to shut down innovation because people don't want to necessarily sit there and disagree with you and you're, you're doing more harm than good. And so I think I'm learning the hard way with Deirdre. I, I, you know, I. It would be great to have a discussion on nothing but that learning path that she's gone through, because I remember her back in the early two thousands and having that kind of thoughtful persona in the way that I saw her present more, you know, very analytical, she said it herself, she, she understands the art and embraces the art, but she's a data-driven merchant and so it's very methodical, but it is a real challenge.
Gautham:I think even raising it above that right, I think it's a challenge for everyone to be able to look across the spectrum and not be so focused on what you own. And I think, like I'll pitch for academia in the sense that you know we force our students to take these different classes across different functional areas I think it does pay off in the long run, right, you get exposed to these different domain areas and how they interconnect, and it's an important point of view to have if you're going up in leadership, which is most people's aspiration.
Rich:Yeah, and I think one of the things that I took away from the conversation is you would ask her about you know, obviously you can invest the same amount in every person, but to recognize who those high potentials are and to invest in those that are going to have the payoff and that's challenging sometimes and I think, as a leader, what you have to do is you have to make sure that you check your bias and make sure that you don't lock yourself into a position where you're automatically assuming who's going to be the top performer. But I never had the chance to work directly for Deidre, but I know people that have that have excelled in their careers as a result of it.
Gautham:So let me ask you this, Rich what else stood out to you in the conversation?
Rich:I would say that's probably, you know, just to close out with a takeaway that I think is one that is good for students. Her answer on the question of failure, I think was I'm not going to say surprising, but it was somewhat surprising and it was refreshing where I think most of us, when asked, can probably come up with a critical failure. Either we dwell on it or we keep this running list. And I thought that her take on it of I've had plenty of failures, I'm going to have plenty more. I learned from them. I don't dwell on them, but I learned the lessons from it. And then later on, when she talked about her ability to at times kind of disconnect and decompress and how important that is, and her ability to get away to, you know, to work out, spend time with her family, I think that is something that more and more people need to hear. I thought her take on failure and how she reacts to it to be refreshing.
Rich:I know that Paula had to jump off, so I will close for her and say thank you again to Deirdre Fitzgerald for joining us on Retail Relates. I think this one's going to be a masterclass in product development and brand development and merchandising and Gautam always a pleasure. So, um, gautam, always a pleasure, um. So, on behalf of Gautam and Paula, thank you very much for joining us today and we will see you next time.
