Retail Relates
'Retail Relates' is not just a podcast; it's a journey into the heart of retail and commerce. Our episodes traverse the path from traditional marketplaces to digital platforms, highlighting the successes, trials, and invaluable lessons learned along the way. We're conversing with those shaping the industry—from the front lines to behind the scenes, the creative minds to the global strategists - offering a diverse 360-degree perspective. We're revealing the relationships and personal narratives that make retail engaging and accessible. 'Retail Relates' is an invitation to explore the world's interconnectedness through the lens of retail, encouraging listeners to discover the personal journeys and stories of those who drive innovation and unite us across cultures and continents.
Retail Relates
Navigating Global Retail Trends and Customer Behavior: A Conversation with Ghalia Boustani
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Can European retailers teach their American counterparts a thing or two about customer service? Join us as we uncover insights from Ghalia Boustani, PhD, a leading retail expert based in Paris, who has a wealth of knowledge about the future of retail. From her early fascination with the industry to becoming a respected author and consultant, Ghalia's journey is nothing short of inspiring. In this episode, she shares her pivotal moments and critical questions that fueled her rise in the retail world.
Navigating the balance between human touch and technology, Ghalia discusses the common pitfalls that retailers face when they over-rely on tech solutions. She illustrates with real-life examples how poor integration can lead to negative customer experiences, such as failed QR code promotions. We also explore the differences between American and European retail practices, highlighting the significance of adapting strategies to local markets and maintaining basic customer service. Ghalia emphasizes the growing trend in Europe towards sustainable consumption and secondhand markets, setting a benchmark for future retail landscapes.
As we delve into the new metrics shaping retail success, Ghalia sheds light on the limitations of traditional KPIs and the necessity of adopting a holistic approach. From the challenges of measuring omni-channel strategies to integrating physical and digital experiences, this episode is packed with valuable insights for anyone in the retail industry. For newcomers, Ghalia offers sage advice on the importance of hands-on experience, teamwork, and keeping a human-centric approach amidst the technological tide. Don't miss this thought-provoking conversation that promises to redefine your understanding of retail.
Ghalia's Bio:
Ghalia Boustani is a multifaceted professional with a diverse skill set encompassing retail consultancy, curation of insights, speaking, authorship, and podcast hosting. Her career in retail gained momentum within the dynamic landscape of the fashion industry, a journey she embarked upon in 2005. Over the years, Ghalia has forged close collaborations with various fashion brands, operating at both retail and management echelons.
Her expertise is centered around ephemeral retail formats, the creation of captivating physical store atmospheres, and a deep understanding of consumer behaviors within omnichannel contexts. At the strategic level, Ghalia excels in guiding brands through transformative processes, contributing to the evolution of their development strategies. On an operational level, she actively engages in formulating procedures, crafting comprehensive training manuals, and conducting impactful team member training sessions.
Ghalia holds a Ph.D. from the prestigious “École Supérieure des Affaires” in Lebanon, a master’s degree from the “London College of Fashion” in London, and a Bachelor of Arts (hons) from the esteemed “Notre Dame University”, along with a diploma from the “École Supérieure des Arts et Techniques de la Mode”. Her academic pursuits manifest in rich research and publications, covering topics ranging from traditional and ephemeral retail to fashion management and customer experiences. Her influence extends globally, as she brings her wealth of knowledge to various educational institutions and business schools in cities such as Beirut, Istanbul, London, and Paris. Since 2011, she has been actively involved in teaching marketing and retail, participating in over 25 conferences and webinars. Through these platforms, Ghalia consistently shares her insights and contributes to the discourse shaping the future of retail.
Connect at:
https://linktr.ee/gboustani
Welcome back to Retail Relate. Today, we're joined by Ghalia Boustani, PhD, a RETHINK top retail expert, a lecturer, consultant, speaker and author based in Paris, France. Ghalia brings a wealth of knowledge from her extensive experience in retail consultancy, consumer insights and strategic brand transformation. In this episode, galia will share her thoughts on the future of retail in the global context, the challenges that retailers face in balancing the human and technology aspects of the industry, and offer invaluable advice on navigating the complexities of omni-channel strategies and consumer behavior. Plus, she'll delve into the human-centric side of retail and what it means to truly connect with your customer in an increasingly digital world. Stay tuned for an enlightening discussion. All right, now let's welcome my retail BFFs, Gautham and Rich. What do you guys think?
Rich:I'm excited for this one, and I don't know, Gautham, if you've met Ghalia before. I've been having a conversation with her on LinkedIn and have been following her stories.
Gautham:Yeah, so we have spoken about doing some research a long time ago, so it's kind of full circle coming back on a podcast, because we both have the passion for retail and academics. So we're trying to think about a way to combine our interest into a paper, which we never got to do it. But I look forward to this conversation.
Rich:So, Gautham, you never know, this could result in a paper. Know this could result in a paper. I'm looking forward to her global perspective and understanding her point of view from what she's seeing on the other side of the world.
Paula:Gautham, Rich. I'm going to be on mute on this one, but I'm going to be actively listening, so you guys take it away.
Rich:We are excited to welcome Ghalia Bustani to the program today. Ghalia is a multifaceted professional with an extensive background in retail consultancy, consumer insights and strategic brand transformation. Her journey in the fashion industry began in 2005, and since then she has collaborated closely with numerous fashion brands at both retail and management levels. Ghalia's expertise spans ephemeral retail formats, the creation of captivating physical store atmospheres and understanding consumer behaviors within omni-channel contact. Holding a PhD from the prestigious École Supérieure des Affaires.
Ghalia:Otherwise you can say is that business school?
Rich:No, let me try it.
Ghalia:All right.
Rich:Holding a PhD from the prestigious École Supérieure des Affaires in Lebanon, a master's degree from the London College of Fashion and multiple other academic credentials, galia is not only a seasoned practitioner, but also a dedicated educator. She has shared her knowledge globally in cities like Beirut, istanbul, london and Paris, teaching marketing and retail. Ghalia's insights have been featured at over 25 conferences and webinars, including major events like Paris Retail Week and the HOP Summit. Ghalia, welcome to Retail Relates. We are thrilled to have you with us today.
Ghalia:Thank you so much. I'm very happy to be with you all and happy to meet you, because it's always nice to see and put a face on a name that we know. So I'm really happy to be here.
Rich:So, Ghalia, you have an impressive resume. We barely touched on it in the intro. What we want to do with the next couple of questions is get to know a little bit more about you. We would love to take a little bit of a different approach. Can you give us three pivot points career, life combination that have happened, that have brought you to where you are today?
Ghalia:Yes, and this is a beautiful way to start this conversation, because many things that happen to us in life do forge our professional and personal experiences, and I am one of these people. Maybe we can start going back to my 17th or 18th birthday. At a young age, there was this need to discover and learn about the science of an industry that fascinated me, and I wanted to understand the what and how of retail. And, coming from the Middle East and having had the chance to travel to different countries at a young age, I have discovered different retail environments and different consumption patterns, and I was eager to go, learn and decipher all of these things that I have seen. So this was my first pivotal point. Then there was the need to go beyond the mere task that I was doing at work.
Ghalia:The first years at work have been a great experience. I learned a lot, whether on the personal or professional levels, but at a certain point I started raising more questions, such as why this and not that, why do it like this and not like that, and it irritated my managers and put me in a difficult position where I might have caused some discomfort at their end. This little individual, as they saw me, who was very sharp and asked a lot of questions, might have become a little bit of a threat. So at this point I started feeling that in retail we need to belong to the right flock and I learned to be very pragmatic and to take decisions and stick to them. So this was another important instance in my retail career.
Ghalia:And the third most important turning point because life and career have always gone hand in hand with me is going beyond what things are today. I wanted to earn the title of becoming an expert, so I believe that advancing with the relevant studies will allow me to deepen my knowledge and that the day-to-day and on the field would help me give more meaning and more sense to how theory translates into practice on one hand, and, on the other hand, how practice helps in feeding a future theory. So I think these were the three main points that I can highlight and that make much sense in my life.
Rich:So you mentioned your discovery and appreciation for retail at a very early age. Is this the direction that you had intended your career to go in? Did you have another path in mind?
Ghalia:No, I think things were very clear since the beginning, and this is a blessing, I think, because today, if I compare my life and career path and my vision with the young students that I meet, things might be fluke in their heads, whilst things were very clear in mine. I remember the day I went into my academic advisor's office to choose my courses for the upcoming semester and I told him that I have chosen this major because it would set the basis for knowledge that I need to build. I was doing a Bachelor of Arts in Advertising and Marketing at this point, so this was 20 years ago and I insisted that my courses were taken on NWF Mondays, mondays and Fridays. So why, he asks? You are still a sophomore. You are being very demanding, Ghalia. He says I explained that I had enrolled in another school to learn fashion design and pattern making.
Ghalia:So he was very intrigued and he asks why this choice? So I told him that I want to be one of the few people who will come to be a reference in the fashion retail industry. Therefore, I want to learn about the business, about marketing, about advertising, but I need to also learn about the specifics of the industry. Excited as he can be. He tore away a yellow sheet of paper from his block note and together we drew the vision and the progress of my career, like where am I today and how I will be growing in the upcoming years. And it took me 15 years to get close to that point and I think I want to structure a little bit differently.
Rich:Do you have a failure that you've learned from, or do you have a setback that you hit, that you had to work around? Or was there a point in time over your journey where you questioned the path and said you know what? I want to reset and go in a different direction?
Ghalia:Yeah, this is a great question, Rich, and sometimes, when we are alone, I think this is the one thing that we take a lot of time into rethinking and reflecting on, and I can say that everyday teaches me a lesson, but I have also learned how to be taught these everyday lessons. There are some important ones and there are less important ones. I can say maybe I can recall three, the most impacting lessons that I've learned. First of all, the one related to people. People around us don't come from the same backgrounds and don't share the same values as we are. We must understand where they come from, to understand their behaviors, and this meant that I had to know myself very well and I had to try to know others as much as possible, and this emotional intelligence helped me in navigating many situations with a lot of ease and with less conflict. So this was something that was really difficult at the beginning to learn and to understand and to navigate, but then, after some time, it became a strength.
Ghalia:Second, I think that at a certain point, I have come to the realization that I am a trustworthy person and I have the tendency to trust people and treat them the way I wanted to be treated. However, those whom I have trusted at the beginning of my career were the people who backstabbed me, if I want to use that term. So, lesson learned I learned to take time into earning and giving trust, and I still believe that, with the right people, trust is the beginning of a beautiful and collegial and professional relationship. So I didn't want to leave that value. I just learned how to use it in a more efficient way. And finally, I think the hardest point that I had to really learn and it took a lot of time for me to absorb and integrate is saying no.
Ghalia:It's knowing when to stop and knowing when to withdraw and cutting the bleed.
Ghalia:Those are the terms that keep running into my mind every time I go to the workplace. And the lesson that I learned the hard way our emotions should not get the best of us, even if we have put the effort all in shed, tears, spend sleepless nights. We need to weigh the situation based on the desired result and see that things are not right Okay. And then, if it's far from the objective, we must be very pragmatic and take a decision. This is not the right thing for me. I've tried everything I can, but now I need to stop and I need to move on and to understand that if this was a negative thing, it should not be seen as a failure rather than a learning curve or a lesson, and so I think these are the most important things that I learned the hard way, because they were not at all part of my personality, but that helped me navigate through the career and understand how I should be treating people and how I would like to be treated in the retail industry.
Gautham:Yeah, what was really nice to share about your lessons learned and part of our podcast is about, you know, advice to students. So these are great advice to students. So before we get into the meat of our podcast, which is the lesson, if you will just want to ask a follow up question, you talked about, you know, building trust. Being backstabbed was the specific word, if I remember correctly, and I think all of us on the call and audience probably have had some experiences. How do you deal with those difficult circumstances? What is your approach to handling such situations? Any advice?
Ghalia:Well, there's never a good or a bad advice, because any situation should be handled with regards to the situation itself Right, should be handled with regards to the situation itself right. But I believe that sometimes we have to learn how to be tolerant and how to manage our emotions, because every human being has the tendency to react in the way that is related to his or her comfort zone and then just show the natural face. Actually, our natural face would show directly with these types of situations. So we have to learn how to read people, how to understand where they came from and why they reacted this way. This is my philosophy at the end of the day, and sometimes I'm criticized. They tell me Galia, you are being too nice, galia, you are very tolerant, so on and so forth.
Ghalia:But this has been done by choice. Being nice is being able and capable to elevate yourself to many situations that are irritating and frustrating, and trying to understand the environment and the people in it, and finding the best words and ways possible to be able to react correct. But we also have to be very rational and pragmatic, and I use these two words. Sometimes we come to a dead end, sometimes there are people who are impossible to deal with. At least we don't have the chemistry, or the current doesn't go well. It's very normal and natural, and this is where you also have to be the bigger person to saying, ok, this is how you want to do it, this is how it will be done, but I will not be on board or I can contribute with this or that. So we have to have the maturity to be able to know what I am, what I stand for, what I can do and what type of contribution I will be doing in that situation, to be able to navigate with certainty most of the time, let's say not all of the time.
Gautham:I love that answer. There's a lesson there for everyone. Let's now move to the lesson section of our podcast, where we ask you about the substantive area of your expertise and try to get your perspectives. You have traveled the world, you know, coming from the Middle East, now in Europe and travel to the US and so forth. What is it that you see that is common amongst all retail, global retail, and what are instances of uniqueness?
Ghalia:Yeah, this is really interesting and I have been concentrating a lot of time into thinking and writing about that, like externalizing my thoughts, because I have been raised in that generation who has been very familiarized with consumption and overconsumption and for the past 20 or 30 years our consumption patterns have been formatted in a way to say that if we want to go to a supermarket, it should be that way. If we want to go buy clothes and garments, it should be that way. If we want to do this in a restaurant, it should be that way. So we have come to a certain understanding of codes through practices that have been given to us, because the market stabilized around a certain retail pattern and environment and through globalization, it has tried to repeat those patterns in different parts of the world. So, yes, it's true that the scope of work that I did concentrated mainly on the Middle Eastern and European markets, and it was only until recently that I discovered the North American markets Canada, the French part and the US. The North American markets, canada, the French part and the US.
Ghalia:During my short visit I had to open my eyes because things were shockingly different these notions between smaller and bigger, the notions of customer service, the notions of consumption moderated consumption, overconsumption, and the notion of being focused and customer focused were very different. And to summarize this in a few words, I think that what caught my attention is that what American textbooks promoted and taught in marketing and retail does not translate into the actual market's reality. Something went wrong in the past years and many retail related notions have been forgotten or put away. How many times and I remember because I did an American curriculum at university when I was doing my bachelor's how many times I've read Philip Kotler about marketing and integrating that notion of service, so on and so forth. And when I went to the United States I was shocked. I did not see any of that and I said, ok, what went wrong there? What is happening to the market? Why do these things change?
Ghalia:And then I started going shopping and I saw that there is this extra effort put on to liquidating, merchandise, selling, selling, selling, which is very American in terms of consumption, and what we see today in Europe is that we should recycle, we should resell and things are very different, even though we're living in the same world, same universe, from consumption patterns.
Ghalia:So it's interesting to see that today. This notion of localization is very interesting and it gets you back to the point that culture is really interesting in retail and we need to understand it because our local consumption patterns are very interesting and very important and they influence a lot the shape of retail. I know that I started answering this question by saying we have been formatted for the past 20 years into understanding that consumption had codes and these codes were repeated everywhere. But today retailers came to that realization that, no, even though we have or we might adopt processes that are similar, it's very important to adapt them to the local market and to the local culture and local consumption patterns, and this might reshape the concept and the way consumers are going to consume. So yeah, there are many differences today and I think we are starting to re-celebrate these differences in retail, and this is a beautiful thing celebrate these differences in retail, and this is a beautiful thing.
Gautham:We shared the same observations. There is so much that is said in our textbooks, but when it comes to actually applications, it falls away. What do you think is core to retail? What should retailers focus on today, when customer preferences are changing? The need for technology adoption, basic features, and then the add-ons, and then the completion to what the brand and the service is and what it aims to serve, what types of customers and how, etc.
Ghalia:These basics would include the product, the people, the service, the retail environment all the cliché, actually, that we have been working on for forever now. But then, with the integration of technology, with the advancements, retailers were very excited to say like, yeah, I want to integrate this technology, I want to add on this surface, I want to do this and that. And they started focusing on these add-ons as being silos, without integrating them holistically into the system, and this, if I might use the word, become astray from the nature of the brand. They forgot that an add-on should complete the initial model, so they forgot about excellence, they forgot about customer service, they forgot about how we add value through delivering our day-to-day experiences. The little things have drifted away and the people working for the brand also started losing that focus. Like are we doing a day-to-day job or are we building a career or are we part of a brand? These are different elements that we need to address today and that retailers have forgotten, and it's a shame.
Ghalia:Today I'm observing a lot of customer services because I'm shocked. I cannot believe today going to a restaurant and paying 50, 60 or 100 euros and seeing the waiter come and throw like a cutlery in front of me. I mean, I cannot accept it. In fast food services they are more attentive and more attending. What is happening today? I think that today we were very excited into saying that we have lots of things going on with the brand. We have the latest technologies, but we don't have the people knowing how to operate the technology and how it links to all other services that we have in or within our brand, and that's a shame. So if we want to be omnichannel, if we want to have the unified commerce, if we want to use the best new things that we can add on to the world, this does not mean that everything essential and basic and that forms the basic components of the brand cannot be left aside and cannot be invested in, and this is, I think, the major drawback in today's retail management environment.
Rich:Not that we go into this with a script, but obviously we have a set of questions and this has turned into a very much a conversation. And to Paula's point of seeing the reaction from Gotham and I, you know he's an academic with a curiosity in retail. I'm a retail executive with a curiosity for how marketing and retail are taught, and both of us have discussed at length where that gap is and I think you're identifying a lot of it. I think the first question I'm going to ask is you mentioned technology. Do you find that retailers are prioritizing adding on new technology to truly solve problems, or are they looking to add technology simply to say I just added this and look over, you come into our store and there are promotions and you go into the store, you pick up that promotion and he tells you scan the QR code, download the app and we will give you a 10% discount, since it's your first purchase.
Ghalia:And, excited as you might be, you scan that QR code, you try to open the site and it doesn't open because you're underground, there is no 3G, no 5G and no Wi-Fi. And how would you like me to open and fill in and do the application when there is no Wi-Fi? Haven't you considered this, dear retailer? This is the most basic thing and the most frustrating things that a customer can endure. Okay, we tell you that we have self-checkout. Do it and wave if you have a problem. And then you go into self-checkout and you scan the items but the scanner is not working. And then you call someone please can you help? No, ma'am, we don't have it till today open, so you have to do the, turn back again and find another. And I mean, like here, you want to just end your life because you have been waiting for God knows.
Ghalia:These are the simple things and sometimes I talk about the simplest and I say and I quote simplest details because today, downloading an app, scanning a QR code, doing self-checkouts are becoming so basic in retail.
Ghalia:But if retailers cannot pay attention to these little details, if they think that they are adding value to our customer journey in-store and online, they're so wrong, Because when we are frustrated, it is so negative that we don't want to see the retailer again and we don't want to come again to do business with them. So they have lost more than they have gained and you ask yourself was it worth it investing such money and losing clients instead of getting more clients on boards? These are the simple things. So I believe that today, yeah, there are lots of retailers who have been excited and we quote excited to integrate all of these technologies, but they have failed to holistically integrate them in the business model and to train employees to understand how to manipulate those technologies in order to add value to the customer journey that they were hoping that they would turn into a more positive one.
Rich:You mentioned earlier consumption. If you look at the non-US market and you look at consumerism and you look at where we have built so much on consumerism, Do you see shifts within US retail that are positive in nature and do you think they're sustainable?
Ghalia:Today. I think I'm not in a perfect position to be able to answer that question concerning the US because I haven't spent the necessary time observing it on the floor or in situ as I might, and saying that I might not have all the answers today, but I think that the US still like to promote consumption and still likes to have a certain type of reaction from its consumers based on them coming and paying and doing more business with them. But I don't think that Americans or the American market is ready into educating its consumers on a different consumption pattern. They are not there yet.
Ghalia:Maybe it should take some time to rethink retail processes in the US and by finding other types of alternatives in which customers could contribute to the business positively, but not necessarily through consuming or buying products. Would this entail more types of business integrating services such as conciergerie, like reparation, bringing in products, consigning products, investing more in secondhand markets, vintage, etc. Maybe we have seen this flow on a bigger scale in Europe and I think the US is taking more time to implement it because the culture is very much built on consumption and overconsumption of the physical product, like the ownership of the product, and the Americas like a lot the term of experience. However, experiences come in as a secondary add on to the transactional experience that we want to put fore and foremost. This is still my point of view today, and I think I need to take more time into corroborating it in the future.
Rich:Do you say and I'll ask it from your perspective in the retailers that you see, do you think that the consumer is driving retailer change or that the retailers are driving consumer change? When you talk about things like circular commerce and experience and consumption?
Ghalia:I think in Europe that the consumer is starting to play an important role into changing the perspective of the retailer and pushing retailers to integrate different types of services to meet those consumers' needs.
Ghalia:But I can tell you that education is starting at home and at school, where there is this discourse common discourse and you hear it a lot with the youngsters about the new patterns of consumption, the importance of ownership and non-ownership, ephemeral ownership, etc.
Ghalia:This is becoming very cultural and is promoted a lot at a young age. Now, is the US doing the same thing with people from school, at school, educating them onto consuming differently and better? Or are they just mentioning it from time to time? Because five years from now, the generation that will be becoming more active and consumer that will be consuming actively on the market is the one who is going to be challenging retailers because they are going to be more demanding or demanding that things would be done differently. But I think today the market has not invested in that type of education yet. The market has not invested in that type of education yet. So the retailer is the one controlling what its customers are going to be doing. And this is on the US part, and in Europe the dynamic is becoming a little bit more challenging because the consumer and his mindset or her mindset, if you might say is becoming more challenging to retailers. They have become very difficult to please in.
Gautham:Europe. Ghalia, let me ask you a follow-up question. What about metrics of performance that companies have? Won't that lead to overconsumption as well? Do you see different companies in the Middle East and Europe? Is performance measured differently, in contrast to more public-facing companies here, where it's driven by growth metrics, profit cost measures?
Ghalia:Are we all measuring things in the same way? Lately there have been some companies where managers have been educated differently, come with a different type of vision, where managers have not been working in the same retail let's say, sector or company for the past 10 or 15 years, people who have this disruptive mindset, and maybe they have started calculating things differently. When we started looking more into these questions of unified commerce in that omni-channel context, we said that it would be very difficult for us to isolate every single channel that we have and calculate its KPIs or return on investment. It might be very reductionist and then we might start calculating a holistic equation, looking more on return of experiences and saying, like, how things are evolving here, if I'm doing a certain action in channel number one, what is the effect on channel number two, and so on and so forth. This would calm down management a little bit and telling them okay, I know that we need results, I know that we need to, I know that we need to live, I know that we need to make money.
Ghalia:But, guys, we are adding on so many things, so many investments that are heavy, and the results would be coming differently and elsewhere, especially with the case of those brands who have highly invested in pop-up stores and events.
Ghalia:I mean, how the hell can you isolate a return on investment on an event that took one day or two and that costed that much money? But the returns will be seen elsewhere, on a different channel, and it's impossible for us to go and isolate and calculate, to have the maturity inside the company, with our managers, to retrain our mindset and think that KPIs and ROIs are very important. But we need to find a new formula, a new set of metrics that will help us understand how the business model runs holistically, every integration that we have done and every investment as an action, and how the reaction will be later on in terms of visibility, in terms of integration, in terms of newcomers to the brand and in terms of purchase. This is a different mindset. I might not have the answer today because we don't have so many cases of companies doing that today, but it's a nice way to just start educating ourselves in the company within that new concept that is becoming our next normal.
Rich:With everything that we've talked about. Is there a retailer or a brand that you've encountered anywhere worldwide that does a good job that you would use as an example in how they connect with their customers and how they connect with their customers?
Ghalia:I don't think that I have a straight answer to that. Yes, and I think we're not there yet. I think that there are many brands that try to be, or trying to become, more holistic in terms of their model, integrating as much physical and digital. I don't have one brand in mind that has perfectly done that, because it takes a lot of time to understand what we need, how we need to integrate it before becoming perfect and whole as much as we expected to be theoretically.
Rich:You've spoken about advice you've received throughout your career and had mentioned a couple of people who I like the expression kind of tore up the yellow tablet sheet. If you were and I will tell you I love the passion that you have for the retail industry If you had the chance to speak to somebody who was just starting off in their career journey, what advice would you give them?
Ghalia:I would tell them that retail is both mentally and physically challenging and demanding. If you want to start your career in retail, you must be prepared to delve into the smallest details, regardless of your educational level or background. Excelling in retail means counting boxes, cleaning shelves, spending hours in the stockroom, assisting colleagues with wiping the floor during rush hours. This is a hands-on approach that should be integrated within your state of mind and it's crucial for understanding retail and being able to demystify the process later on. And I would also tell them that retail is human-centric and customer-centric.
Ghalia:It means that any person who will be working in retail closely with retailers will be spending hours on the shop floor, on the floor in the market, at the heart of the action and online. So they have to be observing, examining, participating in the process in order to deepen their understanding and enriching their perspective. Most importantly, any person's value lies in the strength of the team and the people who we work with. So we have to be very open and very helpful and very proactive, and we need to ask for help when it's needed. And we need to maintain our honesty with all people and during all interactions. And, most importantly, the advice that I give everyone and anyone who will be working in retail, is to stay humble and committed to continuous learning, and when you think you know everything, then it's time to start relearning something new, and this is the only way that you will grow and evolve.
Rich:One last question before we jump into the rapid fire round. What do you think is the most underrated skill set?
Ghalia:I think communication, the personal interaction, have become so overlooked. We are becoming so socially unsocial and I think this is a major point that all retailers and everyone should stop on to see what's happening and the extent to which this is affecting us doing business with retailers, and affecting retailers who are hiring people and not being able to meet their objectives because they don't have the drive of the people. So there is a human problem and we need to rethink that and try to put a little bit of heart again into the process of our businesses and day-to-day lives. Like we have to really come back and be more human.
Rich:And I think that's great advice in a day and age where people are either embracing or worried about AI and the continual reminder that it's a technology. It can be a wonderful thing is a wonderful thing, but it's humans that matter most.
Ghalia:Exactly.
Rich:All right, so we are going to go into the rapid fire round. Three questions First thing that pops into your head a chance to have a little bit of fun. You've spoken worldwide. Do you have a specific walk-on song or theme song that defines you?
Ghalia:I love listening to music, right, and it becomes so natural when we're singing it going out of the house under the shower at the office. But I think that my heart always belongs to one song entitled El Cantante, and the lyrics convey the message that while the performer is being celebrated and adored on stage, they often face loneliness and hardship and unrecognized struggles behind the scene, and they highlight how people only see success but they underestimate all the effort and the pain and sacrifices that go with it. It teaches me every time and reminds me that, ok, maybe today in retail, in my profession, I might be known, I might be addressed as the expert, so on and so forth, but when I go off that stage I might be a nobody to everybody. So it reminds us again to be really humble and know that there are other things that also need to make us happy, fulfill us, and we constantly need to be reminded with that.
Rich:Second question if you could automate one part of your life, what would it be?
Ghalia:If I could automate the organization. It would be great, because I'm that type of person who has to have everything around her well done and on time, and all the time, from cleaning the house to making the bed, to preparing my luggage, to selecting what to wear the next day and planning my itinerary. Like the simple things have to always be perfect with me. So I wish I could automate those things and invest more time in other tasks that I don't always find the time in doing, because I have lost already a lot with these organization tasks.
Rich:I can definitely relate to that. Absolutely All right. You can immediately transport yourself to anywhere in the world for one day. You can go there instantly. No long travel plans. Where would you go in the world and what would you look forward to the most?
Ghalia:After much thought to this type of question, I think I realized that I would be very happy to be right here right now, in my father's garden back home, and I would eagerly anticipate listening to him, watching him find joy in the simplest yet the most fulfilling tasks, such as planting and harvesting, and this detachment from the burdens of the daily life would put everything into perspective and would constantly remind me and us that the focus should be on the little things that truly matter and that add value to ourselves and to our lives. So there are lots of beautiful things and places that I would love to see, but I think that this is the one place that I would love to go to right now.
Rich:Ghalia, that is such an amazing way to end this episode and, on behalf of all of us, thank you very, very much for participating today. I cannot wait for our audience to hear this episode.
Ghalia:Thank you so much. Thank you for having me, and I'm honored to be in contact with you today and to have had this conversation with all of you. Thank you so much.
Paula:Man. There were just a ton of questions I wanted to ask her. She's absolutely fascinating.
Gautham:I'm curious to get your thoughts, Rich and Gautham, Well, I'm going to start off by getting Rich's perspective, because she talked about textbook versus application and how we things written in the books that are in the 80s are not executed today.
Rich:I knew you were going to ask that question and Paula, being on mute, was messaging that she was laughing because both of us seem to be coming out of our skin. I mean, I think she's right and you, but the case studies become dated very quickly and I don't know that it does a great job representing what retail really is and that it does a disservice to the retail industry by not really painting a good picture of how it's run, how it should be run and where the opportunities are. What are your thoughts?
Gautham:I took it a different way, in the sense that the way I heard it was what she was trying to say. There's certain core aspects to retail that are covered in many a book which are not executed and not emphasized as much these days, be it creating value, be it customer service and so forth. So I found the disconnect there between what is mentioned in the textbook versus what is being applied and the fear of missing out when it comes to some of these emerging features in retail are something that I will take back to my students. Focus on the fundamentals. I say I've learned this from Andy. I think it was poor concrete, important things to do first before you can build that castle.
Rich:Paula, when you were on mute, what were you going to jump out of your skin and ask?
Paula:Oh my gosh. Well, I'm always curious about the women perspective and women in leadership and women in retail and women in retail. Now that I'm getting more familiarized with this industry, really in an in-depth level, she's got this wealth of knowledge that I just wanted to know more about. We're going to have to do a round table with her, absolutely, or have a LinkedIn live. So listen, for part two of Ghalia's return to Retail Relates, I will say one and I'll ask you both on this one. It was an area that I probably could have spent about 30 minutes.
Rich:I'll ask you both on this one. It was an area that I probably could have spent about 30 minutes on, and that's the idea of circular commerce and how she went through. In Europe, consumers are really pushing retailers for it, and how in this country, we've become so promotionally driven and, yes, the number one objective is profit, but so, profit driven and growth driven, it is challenging to think that we're going to get to a point where circular commerce, or e-commerce or whatever you call it, is going to be important. Have you guys seen it starting to happen more? What are your thoughts on what she was saying?
Gautham:I agree 100% with what she said. Right, I think in some ways, Europe and the rest of the world might lead in the context of circular economy, but what stood out to me was her push for changing the minds of the leaders within retail to think in terms of what are the other ways to create value. And circular economy, or e-commerce, whatever you want to call it, is just that is that let's create value by taking a more holistic, longer term perspective that includes not just the consumer but also the planet in some ways. So I enjoyed the conversation. I also enjoyed the fact that I kept trying her on metrics, because I do think that to make the change, you need to align with metrics and evaluate people on the metrics. That was the part of conversation I enjoyed the most.
Rich:Yeah, the metrics are important, but I also think and it ties back to in this case it's retailers finding a way to make a profit at it, to drive revenue, but making the world a better place.
Paula:I think that, regardless of what industry you're in retail, tech, journalism, medicine, education there is always a way to give back or to reuse, and it's really nice to see more people talking about circular economy, about re-commerce, about sustainable fashion, because these are things that are impacting us now and that are also going to continue to impact, especially our children.
Rich:It was the one criticism that I had in the first course that I taught was that I didn't spend enough time on sustainability, and maybe that's what this generation will be attracted to in retail is if we bring the potential positive impact on society to life more. So maybe that's a goal.
Gautham:I agree that the students love to hear it, but I think it's very complex to teach in a classroom setting and I think the more people we bring and more diverse perspectives we bring in to the challenges to achieving a sustainable future, the better off the future generations will be and better of the planet will be.
Paula:Thank you so Ghalia, for joining us today and sharing her fantastic perspective from her global retail experience, and a big thank you to all our listeners for tuning in. At Retail Relates, we strive to bring you a diversity of voices and insights that represent a 360-degree view of retail from experts across the globe. We hope you found today's conversation as relatable and inspiring as we did on behalf of my podcast BFFs Gautham and Rich. This is Paula signing off until next time.
