Retail Relates
'Retail Relates' is not just a podcast; it's a journey into the heart of retail and commerce. Our episodes traverse the path from traditional marketplaces to digital platforms, highlighting the successes, trials, and invaluable lessons learned along the way. We're conversing with those shaping the industry—from the front lines to behind the scenes, the creative minds to the global strategists - offering a diverse 360-degree perspective. We're revealing the relationships and personal narratives that make retail engaging and accessible. 'Retail Relates' is an invitation to explore the world's interconnectedness through the lens of retail, encouraging listeners to discover the personal journeys and stories of those who drive innovation and unite us across cultures and continents.
Retail Relates
Balancing Authenticity and Innovation in Marketing: A Conversation with Doug Zarkin
Send us a message and let us know what you think!
What happens when you mix high-energy marketing genius with raw authenticity? You get Doug Zarkin. Today, we're bringing you an inspiring conversation with Doug Zarkin, the marketing mastermind behind heavy-hitting brands like Pearl Vision and Victoria's Secret. Doug opens up about navigating the peaks and valleys of his career journey, from high school rejections to pivotal career decisions. He takes us behind the scenes of writing his book, "Moving Your Brand Out of the Friend Zone," sharing his unique blend of art and science in marketing and how his education at George Washington University shaped his path. Doug's stories and insights are for aspiring marketers and anyone looking to make a meaningful impact.
Are loyalty programs transforming customer experiences or just another gimmick? Discover Doug's perspective on the evolving landscape of brand loyalty and innovation as we discuss standout programs like Marriott's Bonvoy and Delta's service enhancements. Doug shares how Marriott's flexible check-out times and Delta’s improved service offerings are setting new standards in customer satisfaction. We also touch on the balance between technological innovation and practical customer service solutions, highlighting the future of CRM systems in creating more human-centric business practices.
Authenticity and vulnerability in leadership? Yes, please. Doug’s candid discussion on company culture offers a fresh perspective on first impressions during the interview process and the role of real-time feedback. From self-deprecating leadership to the quirks of daily life, Doug's anecdotes reveal the importance of balancing professional and personal life with humor and relatability. He leaves us with powerful advice on embracing authenticity and using setbacks as stepping stones for success. Tune in for a treasure trove of wisdom from a marketing leader who truly walks the talk.
Doug Zarkin Biography:
Doug Zarkin is a renowned Chief Marketing Officer celebrated for his strategic acumen in brand revitalization, team leadership, and driving significant growth across multiple sectors. With a career that began in advertising, Doug co-founded G-WHiZ!, Grey Advertising’s division focused on youth, entertainment, and lifestyle marketing, crafting campaigns that captivated audiences nationwide. His tenure at Avon Products marked the launch of the “Mark.” brand, achieving $118 million in revenue within 18 months. At Victoria’s Secret PINK, as Vice President of Marketing, he transformed it into a $400 million brand, showcasing his ability to scale brands significantly. Doug’s impactful roles at global apparel giants Warnaco and Kellwood further underscored his marketing prowess. Doug is currently the Chief Customer Officer at Good Feet Holdings and previously served as the Chief Marketing Officer for Luxottica’s Pearle Vision, where he led a transformative brand overhaul that not only changed the company's market perception from discount to quality care but also sustained double-digit profit growth over eight years. This repositioning helped place Pearle Vision at the top of Entrepreneur’s Top 500 Franchise list. His leadership has earned him multiple Effie and Clio awards and a place in a Harvard Business School case study on brand revival. Doug is also the author of "Moving Your Brand Out of the Friend Zone," encapsulating his expertise in crafting influential brand narratives and fostering deep consumer connections.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dougzarkin/
To purchase "Moving Your Brand Out of The Friend Zone", visit:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CKD7F4S4
I'm about to introduce Doug Zarkin to you guys and I've known Doug for a few years. I knew Doug when he was with Kellwood. I knew Doug when he was the CMO of Pearl Vision. He's just written a book which I'm halfway through right now. Doug is. If I were to pick one word to describe him, it's energy. I don't think I've had a conversation with him in the last. However many years I've known him where his energy level isn't on ultra high.
Gautham:I'm going to be the marketing professor in this call, right, so I'm just going to be excited to see what he has to say when it comes to how marketers can retain consumers' attention and build a brand. Can retain consumers' attention and build a brand like get them out of the friend zone and actually build a brand when we are dealing with an attention deficit environment.
Paula:Yeah, well, let's get Doug out of the friend zone. And how about we take a listen? Our guest today is Doug Zarkin. Doug is an accomplished chief marketing officer, skilled in team leadership, talent development, brand revitalization and growth. Beginning in advertising, doug co-founded G-Wiz Gray's Advertising Youth. Doug joined Avon Products Inc as director of marketing, launching the successful Mark brand, generating over $100 million in 18 months. As vice president of marketing, he transformed Victoria's Secret's pink into a $400 million cross-category national brand. Doug then held pivotal roles at global apparel giants Warnocko and Kellwood 2012,. Doug became Chief Marketing Officer for Pearl Vision, driving the brand transformation of their global healthcare, premium, omni-channel retail and franchising businesses. Author of Moving your Brand Out of the Friend Zone Fantastic title, by the way. Doug, welcome to the program. We are excited to introduce you to our audience of up-and-coming retailers and marketers.
Doug:If only my dad understood any of that introduction. He still just thinks I make ads for a living. It's incredibly frustrating.
Paula:It's adorable, though, thank you, thank you. Very, very sweet.
Rich:As you guys know, Gautham, maybe you and I can have our students do a letter writing campaign to Doug's dad and tell him Great, yeah, yeah.
Doug:He, finally, he finally, he finally realized who I worked for. And now I don't work for them anymore. I'm now the chief brand officer at Goodfeet Holdings. So the other day he calls me. He says, doug, he's like you know I was going to the eye doctor. He's like can you get me a pair of glasses? I'm like, dad, I don't work for Perlany. He's like you don't. He's 82. I'm like, no, I'm like you never listen. And he didn't listen when he was 42. So you know anything your students can do to help me. Guys, thanks for having me, I appreciate it.
Rich:So I'm going to jump in and, given Paula's introduction and we're going to clip a larger bio to this I want to take a little bit of a different approach. So, if you think back over the course of your career and you can even go to your entire life what are three experiences, decisions or pivotal moments that you think has brought you to where you are?
Doug:today. So first moment was senior year in high school, getting rejected from my top 11 choices to go to college. Gw, where I'm a proud alum, was not my first choice, it wasn't my second choice. I think I hold the record in my high school for the fastest rejection from the University of Michigan. This was before it was electric. I'm convinced they got the letter, held it up to the light and were like nope, it was like six days and that was the first reality check that I had in my life that I couldn't fake it any, because up to that point I don't think I ever opened a book.
Doug:I didn't know how to study, I just would cram and would get like high eighties, low nineties and I threw away a lot of opportunities. That was probably the first. Second was I was 27 years old. I got recruited by Pepsi to be the brand manager on a new product called Pepsi One and at the same time I was approached by the chairman of Gray Advertising to start G-Wiz and I decided to stay agency side. So that was definitely a pivotal moment. And then I think probably the third was making the decision to step away from Pearl Vision after 11 years, which I did last summer to write my book Moving your Brand Out of the Friend Zone and then eventually started in October as the chief brand officer of Goodfeet Worldwide.
Rich:So I'm going to ask the first interim question that isn't on the script. How long did it take you? 16 weeks.
Doug:I had. Yeah, well, it's funny, I made the decision to write it May 1. I had the outline and the name of the book in 15 minutes, but it took me 16 weeks. I spent the entire summer Last summer. I worked harder last summer than I think I've worked in 20 years. I would write six or seven hours a day edit, rewrite. But yeah, I wrote it in 16 weeks.
Rich:Well, I have a feeling when we ask you what advice you're going to give to those out there Don't write a book, don't write a book. Don't write a book, all right. So when you were in the process of getting rejected from 11 schools, did you see this as your career path or did you have a completely different-?
Doug:Oh no, I wanted to be Bud Fox For anybody who's my age. You saw Wall Street. You wanted to be the next Gordon Gekko, Bud Fox, and then I realized that very quickly that my DNA was more adept for something that was a little bit more art and science than pure numbers. I use a lot of analytical skills in what I do now, but I very quickly realized I didn't want to be a fixed income trader. Then I went to graduate school right after I graduated undergrad, on Sunday no-transcript.
Gautham:Gw is an amazing place. How did you deal with it? What's the secret for people to manage?
Doug:that moving forward. So I remember I was on spring break in high school with my best friend who went to a different high school and every school I got rejected from he happened to get into. We were at his grandparents' house in Florida, we were in Boca, spending spring break in Boca, and every day my parents would call me and give me an update. It was a punch in the face. I remember listening to my mom just so disappointed that I blew it Because some of these schools I was on the edge of being accepted and I blew it. I just didn't put the effort in my second semester, junior year, and I just absolutely blew it. I was waitlisted, my number one choice. I was waitlisted when I applied early and they specifically told me that I had to get one grade up one and I was going to get in and I didn't do it. I didn't do it. I had nobody to blame but myself.
Doug:That kind of intellectual chip on my shoulder has stayed with me my entire career. I am not somebody who has been lucky. I believe in luck, but I just don't have it. I've worked my ass off. I try to work harder and smarter than everybody and that doesn't mean that I'm smarter than everybody, but I try to pride myself on working harder and smarter than everybody. I will never be outworked and I try to not be out thought I care so much about what I do. Now it's such a big part of who I am because I know what it's like to not get and it sucks.
Doug:And as a parent, my daughter's a junior in high school and I'm going through the same thing with her. She's brilliant. I tell her every day. I'm like don't blow it, don't blow it. I know you want to go out, just study for an extra hour and then go out, prioritize. Don't make the mistakes I made. I turned out okay, I guess, but I could have had it so much easier I could have. There's so many things I could have done and even in my career I've made horrific mistakes, but I've tried to not make the same mistake twice.
Rich:But I don't want to start with a failure before going to accomplishments. But is there a failure that you had that sticks out, that you learned Professionally?
Doug:100% when I went to. So I was at Avon, so you're talking to one of the few guys that was an Avon lady. You know, insert side jokes there, I can still sell the shit out of a lip gloss. So all of you that are watching my daughter is really freaked out when I take her to Sephora and I her watching my daughter is really freaked out when I take her to Sephora and I'm like you know you should look at that shade. I can also fit a bra. I've never done with her, but to know that I can freaks her out, that alone was worth it.
Doug:I was very fortunate when I went to Avon in that the work that I did in creating an entire new business for the company generated a significant amount of attention. Not only did the plan that I developed win Women's Wear Daily Best Executed Launch Strategy Award, but I was awarded by Brand Week as marketer of the next generation. And then, for the first time in my career, I actually had luck. That shone upon me and I started to get recruited by companies like the Centerfielder for the Yankees and Victoria's Secret recruited me like the Centerfielder for the Yankees. They threw a ton of money at me private jets. I didn't have to relocate, I could commute via the private G5 that they had at Teterboro, et cetera, et cetera. It was the best, worst decision I ever made. I spent a little less than two years there, completely flamed out, because I did not read the tea leaves on what the culture of the company was.
Doug:You guys have all read countless stories about what it was to work at Limited and I will tell you. They're all true. I ended up spending three days a week going back and forth to Ohio, even though we were based in New York. My entire team was really in Ohio. I wasn't going to relocate. My wife and I were trying to get pregnant at the time. It was just a culturally wrong fit. It was working for a company where nobody's opinion mattered other than the founder, and it didn't matter how much time or money or thought or strategy. He wanted something purple. It became purple and everything stopped and it was just such a toxic environment for me that, um, I left and it it sort of stuttered my career a bit and then I got myself back on my feet and, you know, had some successes. But, yes, they paid for my apartment in Manhattan, but it was, um, it was. I always wonder what would have happened if I had stayed at Avon and been a little bit more loyal. The lesson are a guru from an integrated brand perspective.
Rich:How do you think consumer behavior has changed over the course of your career.
Doug:I think brands have started to need to appreciate and that's part of the reason why I wrote the book that they are in the business now of building relationships with their consumers. You read textbooks. What is the purpose of marketing? And oh, marketing's blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Marketing's job, full stop, is to motivate the consumer to do what you want them to do when you want them to do it. But that's not selling product, that's about consumer behavior and that has taken brands decades to appreciate. No-transcript. I think that has changed radically and now more than ever, with this push of personalization and being able to get not 52 flavors of ice cream but 152 flavors, brands have to work even harder to cultivate a connection.
Rich:A couple of examples of brands or retailers that you think are doing it well or on their way right now.
Doug:I got to tell you I love what Marriott's doing. I think what they've done with their Bonvoy program is spectacular. The hotel business was decimated during COVID but they pivoted so smartly they made their loyalty program really a loyalty program and the value creation that it gives you if you're a frequent member is pretty amazing. Something incredibly small like being able to check out of your room at two o'clock, not 11 am, is a really big, freaking deal For me. Being able to check out at four because of the status that I have on Marriott's program is even better. That means I can do a day, run back to my hotel room, grab my bags and go as an example. Or when I'm with my family and it's a late night flight, we're not spending the entire day at the pool in our travel clothes.
Doug:Things like that are such small wins. A complimentary upgrade to a bigger room, even if it's for one night, you don't really care. I'm the king of. Hey, let's upgrade you to the presidential suite and you're only in town for 24 hours. I I can't even tell you how many overnight flights where I get to the hotel at 11 o'clock I've gotten upgraded to like the super mcgillis suite and I'm like there's six bathrooms in here so I got to use every towel in the entire entire room.
Doug:I don't feel good if I don't, so I'll take a shower in one, a bath in the other, just to be able to experience it, and then, when, when I need it, it's like, oh well, it's not available. But I think Marriott and their Bon Voyage program is a great, great example, I think. Another good example Delta, another service provider that I use religiously the lack of change fees, the lack of drama that exists now versus what happened pre-COVID. I think they've just gotten better and smarter and realized that consumer loyalty is a privilege, not a right. So those are a couple that I think, just off the top of my head.
Gautham:Doug, can I double click on a point that you made that resonated a lot with me, which was the point of connections right In a world where we have increasingly proliferate product choices, where attention span lasts 15 seconds at best and where competition and price and other levers happens, how do brands stay connected?
Doug:Oh my God, that is such a softball question, and I appreciate it, and I'll tell you. There's an entire chapter in the book that talks about the brand value equation. But at the essence of the book, and at the essence of what I am as a leader and who I am as a marketer, it is the notion of what I call thinking human, and thinking human comes down to a simple principle, and it is this If you treat every customer as if they were your only customer, what would your entire business model look like, from customer service to refund and warranty, to product curation, to CRM, to refund and warranty, to product curation to CRM? The challenge businesses have today is they get too big and they forget the fundamentals.
Doug:And when you see brands that once were thought to be untouchable, all of a sudden and look, we're dealing with it right now Apple just launched a new commercial for their iPad, unbelievably tone deaf. Great strategy behind it that this iPad does all of this stuff, but instead of talking about it as a value creation, what they did is they basically said you don't need all this crap, you have this. They flipped it on the negative as opposed to the positive, and consumers are not happy. Think about what's happened with the backlash to even brands like Amazon with Prime and the drama that's happening there. Not just Prime, the shipping, but Prime the video content sharing passwords, et cetera. That's happening at Netflix as well. Brands that were untouchable are now starting to come back down to earth when they forget to treat every customer as if they were your only customer.
Rich:What I love about what you're saying is that you're mixing in innovation with what I'll call just common sense customer service and taking care of someone as a Bonvoy customer. One of the and it's a subtle innovation that I like is the ability to chat. I don't have to call, I don't have to go down to the front desk, I can just send a chat to the front desk and ask for something. If you think about it from a retail, from a marketing, from a brand perspective, what innovation stands out for you and I'm going to give you the part two to that what do you hope gets innovated in the next 10 years?
Doug:I think what innovation stands out for me is the suggestions that come when you fill your cart. I'm thinking mainly e-commerce For those that do it well. They do it really really well, and most of those are like micro brands, brands that start on Instagram or that don't have huge marketing budgets. Their suggested add-ons features seem to be really good. Like, the algorithm seems to be really sharp. Where I am hoping there is improvement, ironically, is in things like CRM. I'll buy my wife jewelry and I'll get an email that says dear Doug, I hope you're enjoying the earrings and necklace you bought. I didn't buy it, genius. I bought it for her. You should be able to discern it. It should be a code that it was a gift. If I had the thing gift wrapped, which I did, you should be able to flag that in your CRM system.
Doug:When you get emails from the company that are saying, hey, I hope you're enjoying versus hey, I hope the person you bought it for is enjoying. To me that's a huge myth, because I can't even tell you how many unsubscribes that I do for just stuff. I'm not interested. I'm simply not interested, and it annoys me because email has become such an intrusive part of our life. Even as we're talking right now, I'm getting like 30 emails pop up on my phone and most of them are spam. We have gone so much to the simple, easy and forgotten the humanity of what we do. Work a little harder. Appreciate that somebody gave you their contact information. Don't be a jackass. Take a couple minutes and really think about what you're doing. Sorry, kids, Don't mean to use saucy language, but I'm passionate.
Rich:No, that's okay. They love that. It's a good thing, All right. So let's pivot a little bit towards those that are going to take over for you at some point. Thanks for that, Richard. I got two kids Well. Thanks, Matt. Yeah, I know I didn't mean to do that to you, but I'm facing that myself. But I know you've had mentors and advisors along the way. Is there one in particular that comes to mind and a piece of advice that you've held on to?
Doug:Yeah, I mean, I have been very fortunate and you're going to laugh when I finish the sentence to work for some pretty shitty people. I have learned so much from people that I have worked for that I didn't respect. I have also been blessed to work for. Amazing.
Doug:One I write about in my book was my partner and co-founding, g-wiz, and her name is Barb. She, very early on in my development, realized that I had something, but I needed that something to be refined. And do I think it's fully refined today? No, but she gave me enough rope to climb, and just enough rope to start to choke myself out without fully doing the deed. The lesson for me there was about perspective. She taught me perspective. She helped me understand what success really looked like, and it wasn't always when we won the account on the agency side.
Doug:Success could be about connecting with somebody. Success could be about how. She really helped me understand that the how was as important as the what design. Success could be about connecting with somebody. Success could be about how. She really helped me understand that the how was as important as the what. On the other hand, I worked for somebody and I won't give the company because it'll identify who the person is who had the audacity to stand in front of thousands of people and take credit for my work. I was sitting in the audience watching this person present my work. This wasn't even like it was a team effort this was my work and take credit for it and didn't have even the mindset to recognize me from the stage. I was devastated, devastated, and it was at that point that I made the decision that I was not going to work for that person much longer.
Paula:How did you deal with that situation? I know you just talked through it. You can talk through it again, as if you didn't explain it.
Doug:Not my finest moment. I actually broke down and cried in my seat in the audience watching and I had to leave the auditorium and collect myself, and it took me a good 24 hours before I could say what I needed to say, and I tried to say it calmly, but even as I tell the story now I get just so angry it's. One of my biggest pet peeves is when people stand up and take credit for other people's work. The true mark of a leader is how you celebrate the people that help you become a leader, not when you stand up and you tell everyone that you did it. You have an obligation as a leader to lead, but if you don't lead the right way, people will not follow, and I think at some point you have to advocate for yourself as a human being.
Doug:That's why I really try to pride myself on always having the best intent. I may not have the best delivery, I may not always do it the right way or say it the right way, but what I can say without reservation or hesitation is that my intent is always well known, which is I want to help. I don't talk unless I think I have the right thing to say or I can make a meaningful contribution. But like anybody, I want to be told I'm doing a great job, just like the next person. It doesn't change. There's a reason why presidents live and die by approval polls. They stand up and say I don't look at polls. Of course you do. Of course you do. Validation is a big part of life.
Rich:It's also a big part of leadership. So what advice do you give to somebody in that situation, someone who is coming up through the ranks and feels that they didn't get the recognition based on how you felt in?
Doug:that situation. So you give advice that you probably won't take yourself, which is why it's called advice, right? If it's not, it would probably be called decisions, but it's called advice. I think you have to ask yourself is the juice worth the squeeze? You just learned something incredibly valuable about that person. Let it shape the way you behave around that person. Going forward, however, insanity is doing the same exact thing over and over and expecting a different response. There comes a point where you have to put on your big boy pants or big girl pants, and you got to step up to the plate and be like no, not more. Own your space, don't expect someone to hand it to you. Take your development in your own hands, take your growth in your own hands, take your self-worth in your own hands, but not everything in life is a catastrophe. You got to be mindful. How you allow people to treat you says more about you than it does about them?
Rich:Fair point, all right. So I have two more questions before we go to a rapid fire. And I'm actually debating, and Gotham and Paula may jump in, but I'm debating what order I want to ask them in, so I'm just going to shoot. What do you think is the most underrated skill set today? Or undervalued the size of us? Now see, I love the fact that you said that one word answer. You paused, it was decisive and it was awesome. What do you enjoy most about what you do? What do you really love.
Doug:I love that I get to make a difference, not as a CBO, not as a CMO, not as a head of marketing, but as a human being. I can look at the businesses and brands that I've been a part of and I can show you where my fingerprints are on them, and that is really cool, Awesome.
Rich:All right, paula Gotham. Anything else before I head into a rapid fire.
Gautham:Let me ask you a question, doug, if you don't mind entertaining me, something that another point that stood out was you. When you talk about being flamed out in your best, worst decision and you talk about and I'm talking with students for the past 12, 15 years it's almost always the first factor that they look to when they decide which company to work for. At the same time, knowing the culture from outside in is difficult. So how would someone who's new to this environment navigate, figuring out what are the signals that they can draw.
Doug:Oh, it's such a great question, and if you only had a crystal ball and you could really get a sense of you. Don't get a sense of culture until you actually experience it right. It's like you don't know how good something actually tastes until you taste it. I think how you're treated in the interview process says a lot. Does the person interviewing you use your first name? Are they on time? Do they ask you about you? Do they listen? Are they receptive to your questions? You get a sense of culture there. You get a sense of culture not just of the culture, not just about how your boss treats you, but how your boss's boss understands you. Does he, she or they take the time to get to know you as a person? One of the things that I pride myself on and I am really focused on it is I'm a real-time feedback leader. If you're in a meeting with me and it goes well, I'm going to send you a note and be, like you, crushed it.
Rich:So sometimes for managers, giving feedback when somebody's done something positive is that's the fun part, that's the easy part. What about when somebody has disappointed you or they haven't done as good of a job? What are you doing then?
Doug:I had a meeting yesterday with one of my direct reports and he sent me a note after the meeting say hey, you know I'm sorry, I know I was in the meeting, I was a little confrontational but you know I think your vision's great and you know I hope I didn't rub you the wrong way. And my note to him back was you actually came across really negative and not solutions focused. And while I love a good debate, at some point understand that there's a lot of fun in figuring out how to do something versus spending the time talking to us, talking to me, about what can't be done. And he's like I appreciate the feedback, I take it to heart. He may not be pleased with what I said, but it's how I felt. I would much rather do that than six months from now and be like remember that meeting we had in April or May. You were a real jerk who wants to hear that. It's ridiculous. I think things like that.
Doug:And is your leader? Does your leader have a degree of self-deprecation? I make more fun of myself in front of my team than probably anybody else. You're not making fun of the people. You're having fun with the people and you got to be careful, but you also have to know that you have the cultural permission, and the way you have the cultural permission is to start with you.
Doug:My life is like a terrible sitcom. I'm a husband and married 21 years. I have two kids a daughter who's 16, my son's 14. I have two dogs. I never thought I'd be the guy who has two dogs, but we just rescued a dog, so we have two dogs. My life is is is on. Any given weekend is a complete train smash, going from travel baseball to my personal tennis to driving my daughter doing driving lessons. And if you can't laugh at that, if you can't have fun with that and share that with your team, you lower the wall. Yes, I'm not worried that they don't respect. I ensure that that exists. They don't. I don't want them to fear me and I want them to like me. I'd much rather be respected than liked, but it's kind of nice to be both All right.
Rich:So rapid fire. First sports or concert experience that you remember Concert experience.
Doug:Jones Beach I was 16 years old. There was a girl I really liked whose mom happened to be a DJ at one of the local stations, and we went to see Chicago at Jones Beach and it was the first time that my parents let me drive on the Long Island Expressway. I was terrified and this was a world before Waze or MapQuest. So it was printed out handwritten directions and God forbid, because like most men, I don't have a sense of direction If I missed the wrong exit I would have ended up, guy, probably in Montauk. But yeah, I remember that vividly.
Rich:Do you have a and we debated this one yesterday but do you have a walk-on song or do you have a?
Doug:favorite, oh yeah, the walk-on song, the Imperial Death March from Star Wars. I love it, love it, I love it, I love it, I love it. It just takes you know what, as a chief brand officer in franchise Businesses, you just have to own it.
Rich:So just own it. If you could automate one part Of your life, what would it be?
Doug:Automate one part of my life. What would it be? Oh easy, the morning and evening walks with the dogs I start. Any leader who ever thinks they're too big for their britches have dogs. You start your morning picking up shit and you end your night picking up shit. So if I could automate those two things, let me tell you I have made more deals with the man above on a rainy night for my dogs go to the bathroom. I think I've sold my soul to Mephistopheles like 20 times over for this little 20 pound dog to please just go to the bathroom. I think I've sold my soul to Mephistopheles like 20 times over for this little 20 pound dog to please just go to the bathroom so that I can go inside and get dry or go to sleep. Love it.
Rich:All right, I'm going to try one more Favorite comfort food. Tough day at the office. What's the one thing that you want?
Doug:I happen to like a really good chocolate chip, a really really good chocolate chip. But it can't be fresh, it's got to be like one or two days old. So it's like crunchy on the outside, still a little bit soft on the inside, but like a good like diner, like east coast diner. Chocolate chip cookie is pretty damn good I'm gonna ask you a question.
Gautham:I heard you say a private tennis, so it looks sounds like you're a tennis.
Doug:I am, I am. I play what's your favorite um I love. I love tennis myself so who?
Gautham:you're a tennis player? I am, I am, I play, I love tennis myself. So who's your favorite tennis player that you would like to do? Oh yeah, nick, kyrgios, nick.
Doug:Kyrgios. I don't even have to think twice about it, really, I don't even have to think twice about it. I had the privilege of working with Billie Jean King for a couple of years when I was at Pearl. But, nick, if I could, if I could spend a weekend with him not only just hitting on the board, nick, cause he's, he's nuts, he is just certifiably nuts, but he is probably the most naturally gifted tennis player I've ever seen. And to understand his mindset, um, I had the pleasure of watching him play live Wow. I had the pleasure of watching him play live Wow. I could do what he does Phenomenal.
Gautham:I'll agree with that.
Rich:That's a great way to wrap it up. All right, doug. I want to thank you for agreeing to come on to Retail Relates today. Absolutely fantastic. When we were first getting together and making a list of guests that we wanted to kick us off, you were right at the top of the list and now I know why. Hey, I appreciate you and appreciate all the love.
Doug:I wish you, I wish your students most importantly. I have one parting piece of advice for you Stop worrying about the right way. There is no such thing as a right way. There's no such thing as a wrong way. It's a way. Figure out a way and enjoy it. Stop worrying about being wrong.
Gautham:I mean again. That probably wraps up our week guys.
Doug:Guys, it was great seeing you. Thank you so much for your time.
Rich:I appreciate it. I don't know that I can match the energy that we just witnessed for the last 40 minutes 35 minutes so I'm going to catch my breath and let you guys comment what you absorbed from Doug.
Paula:One word answers decisiveness. So that's the only way I'm talking now, only because I really like it and I think it's efficient. So thank you, doug, I feel inspired.
Gautham:What stood out to me was the initial part of the conversation actually right. So when he talked about how his setbacks not getting admitted into the top schools actually lit a fire and propelled him to newer heights, I think that's very important right. Like many a time, I never got into my first option, but it's how you deal with these circumstances that actually matters, and it was. It was good to hear him speak about that in such a passionate way and, man, if I can match that energy of his, if I can bring that to my classroom for even 15 minutes, I'll be a rock star.
Paula:I think Doug is a clear example of someone that can use his emotions to his advantage and has learned how to master them to an extent that it is advantageous. It's a value add.
Rich:I think and this is something I've actually learned from my daughter there's a level of realness when it comes to that in that, as leaders, sometimes people want to see you and they want to follow you, but that there are times where you can express a degree of vulnerability, like Doug did in that situation, and I think you can learn as much from that as you do from anything else.
Gautham:I'll take it a little bit differently, in the sense that I thought it was more about being authentic to who. You are right, and the way I saw it was that that's him Like. In his years of experience he has discovered that that's him and he is just owning that space and for me that was the biggest thing right, and it's been a struggle for me to really be authentic to myself and it's only been recently that I got to that stage, so it was really nice to see somebody saying like, yeah, it's okay.
Rich:It was interesting because he was making the point about getting to know him as a customer and the gift that he bought for his wife. And shouldn't you know that? I was envisioning how much AI or technology is going to end up learning about you and at what point does it become too much. But I think he simplified it and said look, if you saw that I gift wrap it and it wasn't for me, that should be enough for at least you to recognize that it was a gift, and don't ask me how I'm enjoying it, and show me that you care.
Gautham:I will say that when Doug talked about brands, what is the secret for brands to have longevity? That contact with the customer, staying true to the customer, respecting the customer. It's a very, very, very simple concept, but at the same time it is the essence of marketing. And when today we have a proliferation of options and technology doing a lot of our jobs, how do we stay in touch? A simple enough idea, but getting more and more complicated.
Paula:That was good.
