Optimizing Retail Success With Data & Analytics: A Conversation With Matt Salmonson

Curious about what it takes to thrive in the retail industry? Get ready to hear from Matt Salmonson, Head of Inventory and Forecasting at Quince, as he shares his journey from a college job at a local department store to holding senior positions at iconic brands like Gap & Restoration Hardware. Matt’s fascination with data and technology has driven his career, leading him to become a champion for analytics and customer-centric strategies. This episode is packed with Matt’s insights on inventory management, forecasting, and the future of retail.

Learn how Quince’s unique business model is revolutionizing the retail landscape by delivering luxury products at affordable prices directly from manufacturers to customers. Matt explains the importance of maintaining inventory accuracy, fulfilling customer promises, and leveraging customer feedback to create a seamless shopping experience. Discover how data-driven planning, robust analytics, and a genuine dedication to customer satisfaction can lead to sustained retail success.

We also tackle the challenges of balancing customer-focused strategies with business objectives, such as margin goals and technological investments. Matt shares his thoughts on key metrics like customer retention and acquisition costs and offers valuable advice on the diverse roles within the retail sector. Wrapping up with some personal anecdotes and practical tips, Matt’s blend of humor, wisdom, and common sense makes this episode a must-listen for anyone interested in the evolving world of retail and analytics.

MATT SALMONSON BIOGRAPHY:
Matt Salmonson is an accomplished senior retail executive who has worked for some of the most recognized brands in the world. Over the past 30 years, Matt has served on the management teams of iconic American brands such as Banana Republic, Old Navy, Restoration Hardware, and Williams Sonoma. He has led teams in inventory optimization, sourcing and production, strategy, finance, advanced analytics, and technology. Matt has also managed the operational and technology strategies for expansion into new markets, including China and Europe, for multiple brands. Currently, he is the Head of Forecasting and Inventory Operations for Quince, a rapidly growing Series B startup that is fundamentally shifting how products get to customers.

Chapters

• 0:00 Navigating Retail
• 9:56 Connecting Retail Success
• 16:41 Challenges of Customer Focused Retail
• 25:02 Importance of Critical Thinking and Learning
• 28:03 Importance of Analytics and Business Skills
• 33:17 Conversational Insights on Customer Centricity
• 39:24 Career Paths in Retail Industry

Transcript

Retail Relates EP 102 Matt Salmonson

Paula (Host)

(0:00) Welcome to another episode of Retail Relate. I'm Paula, and today we have an exciting guest who has navigated the world of retail with expertise and innovation. We're thrilled to have Matt Sullivanson, Head of Inventory and Forecasting at Quince.

Matt's journey from working at a department store to leading inventory operations at iconic brands like Banana Republic and Old Navy, and now at Quince is truly inspiring. He shares his key insights into managing inventory with data-driven strategies and emphasizes the importance of customer-focused retail.

Stay tuned as we dive into Matt's unique experiences and valuable advice for aspiring retail professionals. Now, let's bring in Gautham and Rich to start the discussion.

Gautham (Co Host)

(0:39) Excited to have this conversation with Matt Sullivanson.

Rich (Co-Host) 
(0:43) Gautham, I know you've been excited for us to meet Matt.

I read his bio on LinkedIn, Head of Inventory and Forecasting for quince.com, though I think with his background and everything that he's done, I think you can just call him a pretty big deal.

Gautham (Co Host)

(0:57) Yeah, and with all the inventory issues that we have these days, I think a lot of retail is about managing inventory and getting it to the customer when they want it, where they want it, right?

Rich (Co Host)

(1:08) Yeah, you guys are gonna have to watch out for me because we're supposed to be interviewing him for the listeners and I may be taking notes as to how we can take some best practices, so I guess that's okay.

Paula (Host)

(1:20) Rich's catchphrase, I'm gonna be taking notes to take back to my leadership team.

Gautham (Co Host)

(1:24) Yeah, I don't have catchphrases. I gotta find my catchphrase, you know? Maybe "I have one more question."

Rich (Co Host) 

(1:30) No, "can I ask you a question?"

Gautham (Co Host) 

(1:33) Yes, there you go. You know, that's always been my issues. The way I ask a question is, can I ask you a question?

Rich (Co Host)

(1:39) There's nothing wrong with being polite. So I did read his bio and I've been following him on LinkedIn. I'm looking forward to the conversation, actually.

Gautham (Co Host)

(1:49) Look, Matt and I have gone, like, was asked to build out the Center for Retail Transformation at Mason.

Matt was the first person who came and said, yes, I'll support you.

And he spent hours talking to me about retail and what retail going and what are the issues with retail and so forth.

It's probably one of the few people I know who started off with a clear intent, oh, I'm gonna do analytics, when analytics was not cool.

And I'm so excited, and Paul, I'm so excited for you to meet him because he's one of the only people I know of who combines analytics, technology, and still has always got the customer focus that I think is critical for retail or any business that is customer facing. I can't wait to get this conversation going.

Paula (Host)

(2:33) Yeah, I'm super excited. Thanks for bringing him on, Gautham.

I love data, but I'm really interested because I love technology as well. And this is a really unique company. It's just, Quince is very interesting, excited about this conversation. All right, so let's introduce Matt.

(2:51) 

Matt Salmonson is an accomplished senior retail executive who has worked for some of the most recognized brands in the world.

Over the past 30 years, Matt has served on the management teams of iconic American brands, such as Banana Republic, one of my favorites, Old Navy, Restoration Hardware, and Williams-Sonoma.

He has led teams in inventory optimization, sourcing and production, strategy, finance, advanced analytics, and technology. A real modern day renaissance man.

Matt has also managed the operational and technology strategies for expansion into new markets, including China and Europe for multiple brands.

Currently, he is the head of forecasting and inventory, also known as a really big deal, of operations for Quince, a rapidly growing series B startup that is fundamentally shifting how products get to the customer.

Matt, welcome to Retail Relate. Thank you so much for being here.

Matt (Guest)

(3:46) Thank you. I'm glad to be here with you guys.

Gautham (Co Host)

(3:48) 

Our focus is to inspire students, right, and showcase how executive leaders in retail started and how they got to the positions they are.

So just, instead of going through the resume, just give us three pivot points in your career that got you to where you are today.

Matt (Guest)

(4:04) Well, I think the first thing was, you know, while I was a junior in college, like every college student, trying to figure out what I wanted to do, where I wanted to work, you know, what kinds of things I wanted to be a part of, and just being sort of scared and confused about what I was gonna do when I graduated.

That summer, I decided that I wanted to stay in Tuscaloosa for a number of reasons. One of them was taking some additional classes, but my parents would only let me stay at school if I had a job, and so I got a job at a local department store, and it really was, at the time, just a means to an end, but what I learned when I was working there was that I found myself asking a lot of questions about why things were the way they were, why we had certain size offerings in different categories, why pricing was the way it was, what days were busier than others,and why we had certain people or a certain number of people scheduled at different times and different days.

 (4:57) 

Through those conversations, or through those thoughts, and in conversations with my department manager at the time, it became an interesting opportunity for me to really think about retail as a career, not necessarily working in a department store.

 (5:11) 

That wasn't really what I was after, although I did spend a number of years working in stores, but really trying to solve the problems I decided that impacted stores and their ability to actually serve as customers.

(5:24) 

That really is what it became for me, and so that put me on a path for the balance of my academic career to really think about all of the things that I was taking through that lens and in that context, and for me, that was very helpful in directing all of my energy towards a particular goal.

 (5:43) 

Now, having said that, I wasn't sure what this job looked like in retail, so for all I knew, there was a bunch of people in a back room doing a bunch of work, but I knew that there was a role for me, and I knew that data and analytics and curiosity, which were all the things that I enjoyed or all of the attributes that I had, there was a place for me to be able to put those things to work in order to solve those problems. And so it wasn't a matter of what job it was, it was a matter of getting into the right place and finding that opportunity.

 (6:12) 

The second inflection point, which wasn't actually too long after that, though, and it was actually very important, was the three or four years I did spend in the stores. Those years in the store, while I can tell you it was the most difficult work that I ever did, it's not work that I ever wanna do again. I learned a lot. I learned the problems that stores suffer by, unpredictability, bad operational processes, things that were sort of imposed on them that they had no control, but more importantly, what that did was it put them in a difficult situation to maximize their business and really take care of the customer. That experience has been with me and is carried by me in every role that I've ever played.

(6:52) 

There's never analytics for analytics' sake. There's never a problem that isn't somehow related to the customer. Everything that I try to solve and every problem that I take on is through the lens of how it impacts the customer, and that's really, really important.

(7:05) 

Then the third piece, which is probably, while there may have only been five or six years between the first two inflection points, the next inflection point, I was at Gap for about 20 years, and I had learned a lot, had a lot of opportunities. I did things like planning, analytics, technology sourcing, launched new businesses in new countries, so I basically had every opportunity that I ever could have dreamed of when I came out of school, but it was when I left Gap that I really learned a lot.I learned a lot about the things that I had experienced and the value of those things.I learned a lot about, hey, this is how Gap operates, but this is not how the world operates, and it really opened my eyes to how to think about attacking new businesses. I went from an apparel business to restoration hardware, which was a furniture business, and so I really had to sort of tease apart the actual application of my experience to what I call the wisdom of my experience, so what are the things that I could apply to any business broadly?

 (8:02) 

What are the learnings that I had that could be applied to different businesses in different scenarios? And that really led me to where I am today. It really, when I left restoration hardware after four years, great four years, had an amazing team, had an amazing experience. Restoration hardware was a turnaround business, so I started. By the time I had left, we had gone public to do a couple things.

 (8:23) 

One was advise small companies and basically dump all of that information and all of that experience out of my head into their laps so that they could do something with it, mostly with the effort to scale. How do I take a small business and turn it into a big business that runs efficiently? And also, I spent a lot more time with students.

 (8:41) 

How do I actually impart wisdom of my own experiences so that they don't have to go through the mistakes, so that they can accelerate their own learning, so that they can get more clarity on what they wanna do and how what they do and the things that they're good at can be applied in different ways and in different businesses.

 (8:58) 

And so all of those led me to Quince, and I started as an advisor with Quince, doing all of those things, thinking about how to operate the business. Quince was a startup, had not done a dollar a business when I started talking to them.

So it was really about taking all of the things that I had and saying, okay, based on what I think this business model is, this is what I think the opportunities might be and how you might wanna think about the business.

And eventually, it became interesting enough for me to go full-time, which I've been involved for about five years, since really almost since day one, and I've been full-time now for about three and a half years, which is hard for me to even imagine at this point.

Paula (Host)

(9:33) So for people that don't know, can you give us a bit of your pitch? What is Quince?

Matt (Guest)

(9:38) What is Quince?

Quince, we have a very simple, basically value proposition, which is we want customers to have amazing things and we give it to them at amazing prices.

We believe that luxury should be accessible to all. Amazing stuff shouldn't just be for people who have a lot of money. And so how do we do that? Our boilerplate business model is we ship things directly from manufacturer to customer.

(10:07) 

And how does that create value? Well, we don't have distribution centers. We don't have headquarters buildings. We also, in the process, don't do markdowns. So we don't have seasonal businesses like a traditional retailer might have. And so we don't have to take margin discounts.

(10:22) 

So we take all of that value and we package it up into amazing prices for customers. And we've been very successful doing that.

 (10:29) 

The other piece is we really believe that the most important thing that we've got is that customers experience amazing quality at amazing prices. They get it and they actually believe it and they become advocates and repeat customers.

 (10:42) 

And so for us, the idea of really fulfilling the customer promise and doing what we say we are going to do is really important and probably the most important ingredient to our success to date. And to date, the growth has been tremendous.

Rich (Co Host)

(10:59) I probably should wait until a little bit later in the interview to ask this, but I'm actually quite fascinated and I think our students will be as well and our listeners. You started in a department store and immediately saw the problems that you wanted to try and solve. And you chose the planning analytics and then you've taken that through your career. And yet as you speak, I hear that genuine love and appreciation for the customer.

 (11:26) 

How do you connect that dot and how do you make sure that those on your team who may be choosing the planning and analytics and kind of backroom functions as some would call it, really keep customer at the forefront?

Matt (Guest)

(11:41) Well, as I mentioned, that experience for me was a very profound experience in a couple of different ways. If I take it from the customer's standpoint, if a customer spends the time and effort to come into your store and can't find their size, that's frustrating.

 (11:58) 

And in the olden days, a good customer would buy only four times a year, but most customers buy twice a year. So if you disappoint them once, you may not get another chance. And those are the moments where if they can't find the thing they want and the size they want in your store, they may have gone to another store.

 (12:16) 

That for me is a real painful proposition. Other things like pricing policies, if they're not really clear for customers, for example. You don't want angry customers. You don't want customers who don't enjoy interacting with your brand. You don't want your product falling apart. You don't want a lot of friction in the transaction. And all of those concepts, even back in the day when all business was being transacted through stores, those concepts applied, and they even apply now, I would say, on steroids.

(12:49) 

And then from the store standpoint, dealing with angry customers, dealing with unpredictable operational processes like shipments, dealing with pricing or pricing errors, that's very difficult for them. They have a very hard job operating the stores and then interacting with customers.

 (13:07) 

And I always believe that the stores and the people in the stores were the number one retention vehicle we had on behalf of the brand. And so for me, it was always about that.

 (13:17) 

We don't want a lot of friction for our customers. We want easy processes. We want an easy proposition for them to understand.

 (13:23) 

Amazing stuff at amazing prices.

 (13:25) 

They don't have to decipher our value proposition. And on top of that, now, in this particular role, I actually own the customer service team, and I don't want to put the customer service team in harm's way either. I want their job to be retention.

 (13:37) 

I want customers to interact with them in a very positive way. Not when they get angry, and I want them to be taken care of.

 (13:44) 

So it's important that we don't do things upstream that have negative impacts on the customers, which will then impact the customer service team and their ability to retain customers.

 (13:53) 

So all of these things for me have always been very, very connected. And understanding how to service customers, how to listen to customers, and how to deliver to what they expect from you is very, very important.

Gautham (Co Host)

(14:04) 

So Brad, is it safe to say then in your experience, both as working with iconic brands, as well as with startups, that the secret to success in retail is always listening to the customer, reacting to the customer, and providing value to the customer consistently?

Matt (Guest)

(14:21) 

Yes. I thought you were never going to ask that question.

I mean, what I love about where we are in today's world, back in the day, listening to the customer was looking at customer behavior. And I love retail because there's so much data.

(14:39) 

If you think about a receipt, a receipt tells you where a customer was, what they bought, what they bought it with, what time they bought it, and from whom they bought it.

And so I've always believed that there was so much data in retail and so much way to understand how customers were behaving. Listening to a customer meant getting feedback from usually the stores on what customers were telling them. And so it was always a little bit filtered, sometimes a little bit biased.

 (15:07) 

Sometimes a store is speaking on behalf of customers which aren't necessarily exactly the same thing as talking to customers. And listening to those customers and then accurately delivering against what it is that they expect, I think, is really important.

(15:20) 

What I love about where we are today with e-commerce is that we think about, in our business, the three Rs, returns, reviews, ratings, and each one of them says something about a customer and every one of them is a customer saying something back to you. We spend a lot of time on all three of those things.

 (15:35) 

But in retail, your customers can give you feedback very quickly, they shop with you a lot more often, so you have a lot more opportunities, A, to retain them, but also B, to lose them. And so it is really, really important to listen to what they say.And in today's world, you can actually listen directly to the customer.The number one thing, what's different about how a customer shops now versus 20 years ago? The number one deciding factor when a customer shops online is their review of the comments and their review of the ratings. And so now customers have access to each other's information as well. And if you're not listening to customers, they surely will tell you.

Gautham (Co Host)

(16:12) So if it is that easy to listen to the customer, why do we see this to be a challenge?

Matt (Guest)

(16:16) Every company will tell you that they're customer-focused, every single one. There's not one in retail that will say, we're not customer-focused. And there's not one that will say we shouldn't listen to the customer.

(16:25) 

But I will tell you that companies have different sort of objectives and some of their objectives might be driving margin increases. Well, explain to me how that's a customer-driven activity. Now, it's an important aspect of the P&L. It's an important aspect of delivering value to shareholders if you're a public company. But there are things that get in the way of quote-unquote listening to customers.

 (16:46) 

And maybe you're listening to them, but maybe you're not doing anything about it because there's other objectives or other things in place or other structures in place that might prevent you from doing that. A lot of retailers are, some of the more traditional retailers have been very slow in the uptake with technology.

 (17:02) 

Well, why? Because they've implemented a lot of technology in the past. t's been very expensive and it doesn't deliver the ROI. So the next technology decision gets victimized by what a company has experienced in the past. What's important in today's world is that companies are built to be adaptable, that change is required, that honesty to the business proposition is evergreen. And that has to stay on the top of the decision-making pyramid.

 (17:29) 

If we ever get to a point where it's like, well, we don't want radical value. We want just like good value. Well, that's a very different thing. And I've seen companies that were very customer-focused could become very cost-focused and those things sometimes work against each other.

 (17:43) 

I've seen companies that go from engaging their customers very actively through a high-low business proposition that all of a sudden try to go to everyday low pricing, but that's not what their customers want from them. And that's not how their customers shop from them.

 (17:58) 

I mean, some of these have been existential changes in strategy. And I mean, I could easily name three or four that had been around for decades that with one broad stroke and one mistaken strategy basically disappeared never to be seen again. And so it can happen very quickly these days.

Rich (Co Host)

(18:16) So I'm gonna lean in on your degree in marketing. The value can mean different things to different people. And the way that people consume information is radically varied today.

(18:29) 

How do you connect the dots between the reality of what you're providing, the perception that different people have of the value equation and how you communicate it? And that's a lot to kind of chunk off, but if you were to say the two or three things that you're looking at in that case.

Matt (Guest)

(18:44) So number one for us is, as I mentioned, is retention rates. So if I knew nothing else about our customer and their behavior, if the only thing that I knew was they come back, then we must be doing something that they believe.

 (18:58) 

Sometimes the way I describe it is you wanna get it, if you're doing analytics, you wanna get way down into the details to really understand and sort of tease apart the nuances.

(19:08) 

Because if you don't do that, you can end up actually making a wrong decision at the expense of really understanding what the real problems are. But then there's sometimes when enough is enough, like I only need enough information to know that this is working.

 (19:22) 

You have 100 customers and you tell them this is your business proposition and 90 customers come back, 90% of them must have believed it and it must have been worth it to them. From our perspective, customer retention is always number one. And then sort of on the other side of that, customer acquisition costs, they grow over time.

 (19:41) 

So a customer, your next customer theoretically is more expensive than your last customer. And at some point, that value proposition of having to fill the top of the funnel with new customers is very, very expensive. So the retention piece becomes very, very important.

 (19:55) 

But the other thing, as I mentioned, for me, I'm always looking for also validating information. And so as I mentioned before, looking at return rates, understanding customer behavior relative to turn rates, looking at things like defect rates, are we living up to what we say we're supposed to be? And so we spend a lot of time trying to understand exactly if we can look internally and say, yes, we are, or no, we've got some room to improve.

 (20:19) 

But I can tell you every day that we walk in, we walk into the quote unquote virtual office, we are challenging ourselves to live up to that proposition more today than we were yesterday.

Rich (Co Host)

(20:30) All right, I'll jump in and ask this. And this goes to a conversation, Gautham, that we, that he and Paula were having last night.

 (20:36) 

So the conversation we're having is really in large part talking to those that are either coming up through retail or maybe thinking about it as a career.And right now, between the four of us, you have someone who's very, has a strong admiration and love for technology.

 (20:52) 

You have an analytical, and I don't wanna boil it down, but you have an analytical and a planning mind.

 (20:59) 

I'm a marketer and a storyteller.

(21:02) 

You've got Gautham from an education perspective, but obviously strict in analytics.

 (21:07) 

What I love about this conversation is it shows the diversity within retail, but make your pitch to pull someone listening to your side of the table.

Matt (Guest)

(21:17) To be honest with you, I mean, the way I think about what I do, I usually whisper this.

 (21:22) 

What I do, because I have visibility to everything that's going on, I have visibility to demand levers, I have visibility to the supply levers, I have visibility to what's selling at a very detailed level, what's not, how vendors that are making our stuff are performing. For me, I think of information as influence. And I feel like there's no better place to be inside of a retail business than where I am, because I have access to all the information. And I can use that information to influence different groups, merchandising, marketing, sourcing, even how it is that we manage our e-commerce front end or our storefront to really maximize impact based on the information that we've got.

 (22:05) 

I mean, I see the business through information. I see the business through the P&L. And that for me is, I always said, somebody will say, isn't that an amazing shirt?And I'll say, I'll tell you it's amazing once I see it sell for a couple weeks. And then I'll decide whether or not it's amazing.

 (22:22) 

I started out as an accounting major. And I had this idea in my head. I worked in a law firm when I was in high school. And the law firm basically did tax law. These lawyers were also accountants. And so I thought, oh, this is great. This is what I'm going to do. So I took my first accounting class. And I was like, man, I'm not very good at this stuff.

 (22:41) 

I took my second accounting class. I'm like, I cannot do this for the rest of my career. So I ended up running as far away within the business school as I could from accounting and ended up in marketing. But I always thought of marketing through the lens of basically marketing research or marketing analytics.

 (22:57) 

Not so much through things like the four Ps or advertising or any of those things. And I'm telling you, I wouldn't be good at that. For me, I'm actually doing marketing. Right product, right place, right time, right price.

(23:10) 

But just doing it in a very, very different way. That's what I love about retail in particular. Every day is an adventure. Every day is a scorecard. We see our sales every day. And then we have the ability to make adjustments like within hours over the course of a day. And that's exciting to me.

Paula (Host)

(23:27) Hey, I'm back. Sorry about that. Working from home, you know how it goes.

Matt (Guest)

(23:30) I remember like in 2000, it was like 2008, 2009. We were having the Golden Gate Bridge. They were doing construction on the Bay Bridge. And what was happening was everybody from the East Bay was coming across the Golden Gate Bridge. And we live right across the Golden Gate Bridge.

 (23:45) 

It would take like six hours to get home from, get home. And so on a Friday, I decided to work from home. There was, so two things happened. One is I had small kids and it was like, this is freaking impossible. And the second thing that happened was my CEO called me and he goes, hey, I hear you're working from home. He goes, you know, that's not a thing, right? And I said, well, no, I know it's not a thing, but you're traveling.

(24:11) 

So you don't have to deal with this because he actually lived not too far from me. I'm like, but it's like four to six hours to get across the Golden Gate Bridge. And I just didn't feel like losing that time in my life. And he's like, okay, just to be clear, like you're not doing this again. All right.

Paula (Host)

(24:24)  Wow, that's a pretty good one. All right, so let's shift over to student mentorship. What do you think is the most underrated or undervalued skill that a person can have?

Matt (Guest)

(24:33) I get asked this question all the time. And I kind of say the same thing, I think most of the time. Common sense is, you know, I think the ability, and is there a class in common sense? I don't think there is, by the way.

 (24:47) 

But I think just like having common sense, like an ability to take in information and then like figuring out what to do with it in a very mundane way, I think it's actually really important.

 (24:57) 

If I take it to another place that might actually be more sort of relevant to the life they have while they're in school, critical thinking, you know, the ability to take information and then distill it down to a couple, two, three different possibilities.

(25:11) 

And then sort of land in, you know, what you think the right place is based on using critical thinking skills.

 (25:19) 

I think that's really, really important. It is basically the everyday.

(25:23) 

I mean, we have everyday, there's small decisions that have to be made, big decisions that have to be made.And, you know, I truly believe that we shouldn't be making decisions, you know, shooting from the hip. Like there's information that's available to us. How do we take that information, process it very quickly and then make it, you spend the right amount of time on a decision and then make a decision. I think that that's really, really important. And then I just think, you know, a bias towards learning.

(25:48) 

And, you know, I used to say, and I'm not pandering to the faculty members here, but when I say a bias towards learning, it's, you know, I used to say that I come in every day, you're pretending like I don't know much. So that sort of keeps me listening to my team.

 (26:03) 

It keeps me listening to the signals or, you know, observing the signals that are in the business and then challenging my own sort of thoughts on, and notions about what I think is, you know, might be true.

(26:15) 

The way I've described it is that what I don't wanna be is somebody who's worked for 30 years, come into a company and say, no, I've tried that before, it doesn't work. Because in the end, what you're left with is just like one thing to do. And that's not interesting.

(26:26) 

And I've got enough examples of times when I thought I was right, that I turned out to be wrong and very wrong in a couple times that it keeps me on my toes and keeps me challenging my own sort of understanding about how I think the world works.

 (26:42) 

And then just, you know, being willing to take chances and learn new things and remember that we're in different times and in a different world and at different, you know, channels that things may turn out different over time.

 (26:54) 

And so be willing to sort of challenge, you know, my own thinking to stay fresh and relevant so that I can adapt and sort of build alongside of businesses especially new businesses like this.

Paula (Host)

(27:06) You talked about soft skills. You know, we're in the era, we're literally in the fourth industrial revolution and AI is taking over and it's proliferating faster than any of us could have imagined. What do you think is the hard skill that students or the future workforce need to get on, need to at least have?

Matt (Guest)

(27:24) 

This is a really interesting question. I haven't pondered this one in a while. So several years ago, I used to say to a lot of students, especially like marketing students, for example, you know, you need to be able to do analytics. I know the school requires you and Gotham's heard me say this for business schools. When I was in school, I had to take two statistics classes. I actually had to take some programming classes.

(27:44) 

Yes, there were computers back then.

 (27:46) 

But in today's world, because of some of the academic trade-offs that are happening a lot of the business schools only require like one statistics class. That's not enough.

(27:54) 

I mean, students should have a really deep understanding of analytics, of statistics, and then how to use an understanding of those two things in technology.

 (28:04) 

And so whether that's, you know, taking a class on like Python or R or MATLAB or, you know, I mean, there's any number of things that get used inside of these businesses. SQL, for example, I think is in today's world, it's a, I think of like a fundamental skill.

(28:21) 

So you have to know how to do all of those things. And if the school doesn't offer it, I've always encouraged the students to find other ways to learn those things.

 (28:30) 

I mean, gosh, you have, we have YouTube these days. I mean, you know, there's so much richness and so many different learning opportunities. I think those are important. I do think understanding how P&Ls operate is really important.

(28:43) 

And so if you're not paying attention in your finance class or even in your accounting class, understanding how businesses function and why they function the way they do, and then getting seriously deep in those case studies when you're in your general business classes around understanding a company's P&L,

 (29:00) 

how to determine valuations, especially in a world that's made up of a lot of startups these days, you might end up in private equity or venture capital.

 (29:08) 

You might end up in investment banking. I mean, you could end up in a lot of places where these skills are really important. And they're also important inside of a business. And so I think that that's, you know, those are some things I think are really worth thinking about.

(29:20) 

Now, the AI component actually, I'm not even sure what to make of it at this point. I guess what I would say is, I think everybody needs a real solid working understanding of what it is. Because if you don't, it's gonna sneak up on you and take your job.

(29:33) 

Make sure you stay relevant on that stuff. And it's moving very, very quickly. Make sure you know how to use it to actually make the work that you do better. I think that that's a huge piece of this. And I know that schools are struggling to figure out, does this stuff fit into the curriculum? Or is it like outside the curriculum it's considered like cheating?

(29:53) 

You know, I used to say on that note, on all of the statistics that I had to take, I used to get frustrated that, you know, I couldn't, I don't know, I've never understood why we couldn't use our book for the exams. Like I never understood. It's like when I'm in a, when I work in a company, I'm not gonna sit there and say, well now what was that statistics formula again?

(30:09) 

I'm gonna actually like have a book. Now in today's world, that's Google or chat GPT. Like, you know, how do I calculate this kind of, you know, trend data or a trend curve?

(30:18) 

And so I think figuring out the balance, I think academically to allow students to use these things so that that becomes a skill for them when they're outside of school. I know something that schools are struggling with, but I think it is gonna be really important.

Rich (Co Host)

(30:34) When I went through my master's and was taking business statistics, it shocked me that, and I forget, Dalvin you probably know what it is, the Texas Instruments calculator that's about $150. And I went back and forth with the professor of, can I just build this on an Excel macro and do it that way?

 (30:50) 

And there is that you have to understand the dynamics of the formula and what the concept means, but there should be a course in common sense and common sense applications.

Matt (Guest)

(31:01) Well, one of the questions that I get asked a lot too, or, you know, what were the classes that were most valuable to me when I was in school? And, you know, one of them was business writing and communications. And there were certain concepts in that class. It was like an easy "A" class.

 (31:16) 

There were concepts in how to communicate and that still apply.

 (31:20) 

Like how to use like your negative space on PowerPoint slides or how to craft an email and sort of in the spirit of like being really effective in communication and making sure your first point is in, you know, the way I describe it to people now, it's like, if the only thing they read is the subject line, they know what this email's about. Don't make people dig.

 (31:40) 

And those are the types of things that I think kind of go into the, you know, sort of common sense or like really think about how other people think and digest information that I think is really, really important.

 (31:49) 

Statistics, as I mentioned, was also super important.

(31:52) 

I wasn't very good at it, but I was good enough at it that I knew by the time the technology world started to change, I knew what technology should have been capable of because I had a good understanding of statistics. And it's all logical.

 (32:04) 

It's all about, you know, following a logical path. And then even the little bit of coding that I did was valuable.

 (32:11) 

And while it's not relevant at all because we were coding in like BASIC and COBOL, it still, it was a way of thinking and a way of asking for information from either a software program or a computer that is irrelevant even still today. And even with ChatGPT, how you ask for information from ChatGPT matters.

Gautham (Co Host)

(32:30) 

Matt, we're getting to the end of our session. We thought we would have some fun with you with some impromptu or not so impromptu questions to get to know you a little bit more. So I'm going to kick things off. I'm going to ask the first question.

 (32:48) 

What would be your walk-on theme or theme?

Matt (Guest)

(32:51) I guess it depends. So it's either Thunderkiss 65 or it's Enter Sandman. So that would be like if I was playing for like the Giants or something. But if I was playing for the Savannah Bananas, it would be Red Solo Cup.

 (33:04) 

And I will go with Young Metallica, absolutely.

 (33:08) 

Well, James Hetfield used to live about two blocks from us. And we had them over a few times. Their kids are almost the same age as our kids. And I remember we had them over for Father's Day and my dad was at our house for Father's Day. And my dad had no idea who James Hetfield was. And he asked James, he goes, so what do you do? And he goes, I'm in a band called Metallica.

(33:29) 

And my dad had a chemical company. So he's like, you're in metals. What kind of metals are you in?

(33:35) 

And I was like, okay, I need to intervene.

 (33:38) 

So then my dad, he still didn't really know who he was, but he knew he was in a band called Metallica. My dad lives in Fresno, California. My dad found out Metallica was playing in Fresno and asked me if I would invite them to his house for dinner after the concert. And I'm like, dad, I'm not doing that.

Rich (Co Host)

(33:56)  Oh man, I thought you were gonna start, we were gonna go into that. Well, you know what? I'm gonna twist the question. What do you think dad would have served if they came over?

Matt (Guest)

(34:04) He would have served a beer can chicken. He would have served rice-a-roni and probably a tomato and cucumber salad. What he cooks, he cooks really well, but he only cooks like three things. So I have a 30% chance of being right.

Paula (Host)

(34:19)  That's absolutely adorable. All right, so last one, best one. If you could automate one aspect of your life, what would it be?

Matt (Guest)

(34:26) Man, yard work. I mean, I enjoy it.

 (34:28) 

It's therapeutic, but I really sometimes don't.

(34:31) 

I mean, I'm a little OCD, so I don't like leaves on the patio and stuff like, so I'm constantly out there with a blower and constantly checking things out to make sure where they're supposed to be.

 (34:40) 

I think this is kind of the downside of working from home too, by the way, because I'm sitting here looking out in the backyard and I can see my yard and I could see something that's out of place. And then in between meetings, I'm out there milling around the yard, fixing things.

(34:51) 

Man, it does actually wear me out too. It's one of those things where I can't turn it off.

Gautham (Co Host)

(34:56) Well, Matt, that brings us to the end of the interview questions. I appreciate you taking the time to be here learning about your perspective. And I loved it. As a marketer who teaches marketing analytics, that intersection of data with customer experience, that was brilliant. Thank you for making time. I appreciate it. And we'll see you around here in the future.

Matt (Guest)

(35:18) Yeah, if you invite me.

Paula (Host)

(35:20) 

What a great conversation with Matt Salmason.

 (35:22) 

We covered so much ground from his early days in retail to his current role at Quince. It's clear that data and analytics are pivotal in driving customer satisfaction and operational efficiency.

(35:32) 

Matt's emphasis on the importance of critical thinking and continuous learning really resonated with me. To my podcast BFFs, Gotham and Rich, what do you guys think?

Rich (Co Host)

(35:40) Well, you know what? He lived up to, he's a pretty big deal. I was, you know, I know you were nervous when you were telling us about him. Great information. I could have listened to him for a couple of hours.

Gautham (Co Host)

(35:53) Yeah, I could too. Actually, I do that quite often with him. And like I said, like what I really appreciate about him is he's laser focused on being customer centric, but at the same time, it always starts with the data, right? It always is about the data. Hey, let the data speak.Let's use the data to actually drive that customer centricity.

(36:18) 

So it's not customer centricity for saying it, it is actually doing it.

 (36:23) 

And that's why I really enjoy my conversations with him and he always keeps it real, which he did.

Paula (Host)

(36:27) Yeah, the fact is that, you know, it starts with data, it should end with data as well. We live in this data centric world and he gets it. He got it from really early on and just his background alone, right? It's incredibly impressive.

 (36:40) 

Like we said, just iconic brands and Glitz is just, I mean, I said it, hate to sound like a broken record, but really, really keep you my eye on this one, so.

Rich (Co Host)

(36:51) Yeah, well, you know what? I'm gonna stick up for the merchants and the storytellers.

 (36:57) 

When he said that if he's asked the question, if it's a great looking shirt and he'd tell you in two weeks when it's selling, I had to laugh because I've spent my career buying the shirt and hoping it would sell. So I'm going to, I'd like to believe that it's a marriage of finding the right product and having the right data.

 (37:16) 

The data does matter. And I love the fact that even though he is an analytical person, a numbers person, a data person, when we were talking to him, he came across, well, it was genuine. He absolutely loves the customer and puts the customer first.

Paula (Host)

(37:34) And he's so common sense, right? He talked about that. I like that.

(37:38) 

I like that he's so literally relatable because he really does think about, I mean, not just the data and not just his experience. You wouldn't know that he was such a big deal because he is so humble, but he just incorporates so much common sense into what he does. And I think that as we grow in our careers, we kind of lose sight of that.

Gautham (Co Host)

(37:56) 

No, it's probably why he spoke about common sense, right? As the underrated skill in what he would like to see. And I think it's a skill that we all need to keep working on. At least I need to keep working on.

Rich (Co Host)

(38:09) Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, and Gautham, you and I have talked about it now that I've entered the realm of teaching that critical thinking is something that isn't always there. It is an undervalued skillset.

(38:24) 

And regardless of what happens with AI, the ability for us to think from a critical perspective, a creative perspective, and balance the two is gonna be hugely important. I really am fascinated by the fact that he worked at a department store and started to ask questions. And before, to your point, data and analytics were really what they are today. He saw an opportunity within retail.

 (38:48) 

And I think that's one of the things that we're trying to do, all three of us, is to encourage those who are working in the department stores today, who are on the front lines, who are in school, that retail is a career, regardless of what your mindset is, right brain, left brain, art, science.

Gautham (Co Host)

(39:08) Yeah, and I actually think this is a great conversation for people starting off in retail because it exposes them to other aspects of retail which perhaps might not meet their eye right up front and shows them career paths out there.

 (39:23) 

So hopefully this is able to convince a few. And it's not just a customer service aspect, but there's so much other functionality that is needed in retail today. And it is a good industry to be in to learn those different skills.

Paula (Host)

(39:38)  Listen, if I had had this when I was 17 working on the shop floor, I think I would have. I wish I had this, right? Because I didn't know what I didn't know. And especially first-gen college student, immigrant, parents working three jobs didn't have time to show me the ropes, didn't even know the ropes.

 (39:55) 

It's helpful to have this kind of information broaden my horizons and help me understand, oh, wow, this is a career path.

Gautham (Co Host)

(40:02) We should end on that.

Paula (Host)

(40:03) And on that note, it's time to wrap up this episode of Retail Relates. I hope you found Matt Salmonson's journey and insights as enlightening as we did.

 (40:11) 

His experiences offer a lot of valuable lessons, especially for those starting their careers in retail. Remember, it's all about keeping the customer at the forefront while leveraging data to make informed decisions. Be sure to check out our other episodes and we look forward to bringing you more inspiring stories and practical advice.

 (40:27) 

Until next time, thanks for tuning in.